[John]

what you need to ask yourself will Putin stop there?

A week ago I'd have thought him doing what he is was impossible. What worries me is how he will react to the strong defence of the Ukrainians. This is costing Russia blood and treasure. The best hope the Russians have is to depose him and pull back or be a pariah state.
Germany has just said it is sending anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles. Russia can't afford to lose tanks and aircraft at this rate for long.

[rowlandwells]

its getting sadder by the day it proved the Russians have no regard for the  life of the Ukrainian people just looking on the tele yesterday where the Russian tank just turned on that car crushing  it but lucky for those in the car they managed to get out alive nothing short of a miracle as for the Russian  not worth repeating 

[Subversive_plot]

I think the average Russian citizen does value human life, and I don't judge all of them by what Putin is doing. Many Ukrainians have family ties to Russia, and vice versa. What Putin did is like the UK invading Ireland, or the USA invading Canada or Mexico.

Soldiers do what they are ordered to do, I am not excusing what the car-crushing tank did, but maybe that was a "less-bad" option than crushing occupants. Tank driver may have faced harsh punishment (court martial) if he took no action. I didn't see the video, so can't give an informed opinion, I'll admit.  OK, nevermind, found the video, that tank driver deserves whatever the Ukrainians can dish out.

[John]

I think the average Russian citizen does value human life, and I don't judge all of them by what Putin is doing. Many Ukrainians have family ties to Russia, and vice versa. What Putin did is like the UK invading Ireland, or the USA invading Canada or Mexico.

Oddly, I used the same analogy when talking with my daughter. The thing is, the Russians get the Putin version of the truth through their media. Even the independent press is not allowed to say 'war' - it's a special military action.

[Plot 1 Problems]

I think the average Russian citizen does value human life, and I don't judge all of them by what Putin is doing. Many Ukrainians have family ties to Russia, and vice versa. What Putin did is like the UK invading Ireland, or the USA invading Canada or Mexico.

Oddly, I used the same analogy when talking with my daughter. The thing is, the Russians get the Putin version of the truth through their media. Even the independent press is not allowed to say 'war' - it's a special military action.

I have a couple of Russian friends and they definitely get access to the non state endorsed media. Though that has become a little tougher over the last couple of weeks.

[Subversive_plot]

There were roughy 6000 Russians recently arrested for protesting the war, so the genie is out of the bottle, the citizens know something is up.

They will eventually hear of crimes against humanity, such as the tank incident, or deliberate targeting of civilian targets. Also, they will feel the effects of sanctions coming from all corners of the world. Some sanctions are from private companies (Delta Airlines has indicated they will no longer partner with Russian airlines or specifically connect to their flights).

[John]

We might feel the western sanctions are ineffective but thinking on it.. Imagine if you're a well off Russian. 

You're planning a holiday outside the country and today it is cancelled as Russian planes aren't allowed to fly in EU or UK airspace. You can't get any foreign currency. The bank lending rate is 20%. Inflation is starting to run wild. Oh well, you can watch the footy.. oh dear, nobody will play with you.

I think they may catch on that things aren't quite as they're being told.

[Subversive_plot]

I just saw live video (2:00-  3:00 a.m. in Ukraine) of Russian soldiers firing on
the largest nuclear power plant in Europe.

"Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, said on Twitter that the Russian army was “firing from all sides” on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power complex and that a fire had broken out." (New York Times)

There is a risk of a nuclear disaster much worse than at Chernobyl.

[mumofstig]

I couldn't possibly like your post Sp  but strongly agree.
Someone will be listing the war crimes for future refence....

[John]

My take on Ukraine is that Putin thought they would just happily become part of Mother Russia and resistance would be light and sporadic. He'd just murder the democratic government and the populace would kneel before Stalin Putin.
Instead the Ukrainians have become angry and are fighting him for every inch of their country. The more equipment and help they can get, the better they'll do it.
Can Ukraine hold Kyiv? I'd reckon they'll not but they'll sell the rubble dearly. They're talking about making Dnipro a new Stalingrad. I hope the Ukrainian government has a plan (as Britain had in WW2) to move the seat of government to the west and harass the enemy in the occupied areas.
All the Ukrainians wanted was what we take for granted -democracy, to live their lives in peace. It's so heartening to see how their neighbours are taking the refugees in. Refugees in Europe!

[Subversive_plot]

I'm puzzled by a 40 km long line of Russian army vehicles that is virtually parked on the highway, in part lacking fuel(?) but nobody seems to be picking off the sitting ducks. At least not as much as you would expect.

I hope this does not mean that Ukraine is running low on javelins etc.

[John]

I suspect it's a problem of getting the weapons to bear but it's worrying that nothing much seems to be happening.
If the Ukrainians can get troops into the right place with the right weapons, the Russians are actually quite vulnerable. A 'defeat in detail' might be on the cards. There's much we don't know - for example; the state of the Ukrainian air assets. It may be the Russian column will collapse due to the incompetence of their army - basically it looks good but when you look at the troops they're ill informed without basic supplies like food. The videos of them looting shops shows the lack of control on the ground.

[rowlandwells]

its just life wrenching to watch what's going on in that country together with the misery its hart-rendering to see so many people loosing there homes moving from what was there country to another country not knowing if they will ever return or indeed if they will still have a family

I have to ask myself if the sanctions against Russia will have any effect on that country to climb down on its relentless bombardment of Ukraine

its also interesting to note  when the Russians took on Afghanistan they met there match there something they couldn't win and went  home lets hope they they get the same  blooming nose in the Ukraine but I'm not sure how that's going to end up something tells me it could come under Russian domination

[John]

I watched an interesting talk by an ex-chief of MI6 on YouTube.
Basically the worry is that Putin can't lose. If he can see no way out then he could do anything.
Meanwhile millions are suffering basically because of one man. I keep thinking about the film Downfall about the last days in Hitler's bunker. Very much based on truth, another madman was willing to do anything and obviously divorced from reality. Yet senior generals just kept trying to do as he ordered even when they knew it was hopeless and just wasting lives for no gain.

[Goosegirl]

I've just read that Putin has denied he's invading Ukraine and that it's all fake news. DER??