No Dig Advice

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Elaine G

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No Dig Advice
« on: August 15, 2022, 23:31 »
I am interested in giving 'no dig' a go - partly because I think it better for the soil, and partly because I'm not getting any younger!!

However, I don't have access to decent manure. There is no longer a supplier to the site since the aminopyralid saga  :(

So is there an alternative I can use? Like bagged manure?
Quantities do no have to be huge as I am happy to tackle a little at a time if necessary.

Any advice from those already converted gratefully accepted.

Thanks
Elaine
The foolish man seeks happiness in the distance, the wise grows it under his feet - James Oppenheim

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Plot 1 Problems

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2022, 02:05 »
I'm certainly not an advocate of no dig, but if you want to go down that route most local authority waste sites offer pretty cheap soil conditioner made from green waste collections.
While some have their opinions on the quality of this stuff, I've had nothing but good experiences over many years of using it to add organic matter to my soil. Word of warning though, it does pong for a few days ;)
It could easily be used to top the soil in the Autumn and be ready to plant into by next spring, just like a top dressing of manure.

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Blewit

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2022, 08:15 »
We've been working our 500 square meter plot as no-dig for the last six years and absolutely love it (especially during this latest dry spell  :D).
Starting off we struggled for mulch and pretty much our only option to cover the relatively large area was fresh wood chips, not the best option but it got us started. Chips ideally need rotting for a year before use and benefit from a sprinkling of chicken manure pellets or similar, but within just a few weeks of covering, the soil beneath showed definite signs of improvement.
Wood chips are now confined to paths and growing beds are mulched annually with home made compost.
In the first years we grew green manures to make compost and added lots of cardboard to the pile to increase bulk.
One gardener on our site, (when setting up no-dig last year), bought a load of end-of-season bagged compost at reduced price.
I think you're doing the right  thing by trialling a few beds to begin with, it'll allow time to source/make mulching material.

 Happy gardening   :)

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Goosegirl

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2022, 10:42 »
I agree with Blewit, plus you could get some mushroom compost as well to use as a mulch, though don't put it on lime-hating plants as it usually contains lime. Ours is from a local supplier who uses rotted horse manure and it smells gorgeous!
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Plot94

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2022, 14:18 »
You could also use straw, hay or grass cuttings. Laid on the surface over the winter these have a positive impact on the soil, protecting it from the worst of the weather as well as encouraging worms. One plot holder on our site uses complete bales of straw and plants directly into them, can't comment on how well this works but she does seem to have quite vigorous tomato plants at the moment. I use straw to cover the potatoes and leave this on the soil to rot down each winter, with a definite improvement in the soil structure quite quickly noticeable.

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snowdrops

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2022, 15:24 »
I’m in my 5th year of total no dig on both my allotment & garden & I love it, it’s as if the plants are on rocket fuel most of the time. Also it is very noticeable how few weeds there are on my allotment, I do still need to hoe, but if some escape notice, they pull out so easily.
The usual advice is if the ground is weed free you don’t have to use a light blocking layer of cardboard to begin with. Then it’s a case of adding (in this country because of slugs) a layer of well rotted mulch, this can be anything, not necessarily manure, any of the other replies would be good. If you have a very weedy area that you wish to bring in to use, chop/strip the weeds as low as possible, cover with brown cardboard overlapping the edges of the boxes to exclude light & then cover with your mulch. To begin with you may need a fair bit (if the ground was weedy) but otherwise an inch or 2 is sufficient and then each year after just top it up.
Most people think you have to put 5 or 6 inches on each year but that is not true. It’s recommended just to use the same amount as you would dig in but with more benefits I’ve found.
Starting small is a great way to trial it.
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steven c

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2022, 15:37 »
agree with snowdrops we have been no dig [3 prolapsed discs steered us this way] for years at home and on allotment we have very few weeds compared to our plot nieghbours who dig we collect manure from local stables free of charge [owner says we are doing him a favour] digging into the heap gives well rotted manure we spread that on the beds in autumn a light rake in spring job done   we did start with cardboard over plots that were covered in grass and weeds not having been worked for several years covered this with manure and compost more plotholders seem to be going this way maybe look up charles dowding for more info  good luck
from bow like to grow

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Elaine G

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2022, 22:20 »
Thank you everyone for your replies. That has certainly given me some alternatives to think about.

We do get lots of wood clippings at the site so I will be stockpiling those to rot down for the future.

We sometimes get council compost, but its a scrum to get any of that  :lol:. To my knowledge they don't sell it any more - I've heard they give it to local farmers!!

I have looked at Charles Dowding's book, but it tends to be a case of this is what we did, rather than what alternatives we might consider.

Thanks

Elaine

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hasbeans

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2022, 08:46 »
The 'permaculture' proponents often are 'no dig' and build on the stuff Mr Dowding does.  For example, 'Hugelkultur' is worth a go.  Lot's of info out there from people like Sepp Holzer and Paul Wheaton.

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New shoot

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2022, 11:25 »
It is also worth looking out books by Bob Flowerdew who was the first to make no-dig and deep mulches mainstream.  He used to appear on Gardeners World and I copied quite a few of his ideas with success.  He would try anything, so might be the more creative thinker you are looking for.  You can draw your own line when he veers off into the more 'out there' ideas you think are going a bit too far  ;)

Re wood chips - you can use them straight away, but make sure to spread a high nitrogen fertiliser over the soil before you do.  I have done this with pelleted chicken manure and fairly fresh wood chips with no ill effects from nitrogen depletion in the soil.  Wood chips are a pain with some crops as they get in the way of seeds growing, but fine round fruit, squashes, sweetcorn and other big stuff.

I do a mix of dig and no-dig and have done for years.  Both have their merits and serve different purposes for me.  I like green manures as well.  Sow them, strim down once grown and cover and they condition the soil beautifully.  I never dig mine in, just leave them to rot under weed membrane  :)


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Grubbypaws

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 10:24 »
This is interesting. Can anyone suggest a good source of information about how to No Dig garden?

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AndyRVTR

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 19:27 »
Google Charles Dowding..

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Snow

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 11:31 »
Ive done no dig for a couple of years, its so much better in terms of effort and results imo. If you already have beds then you just need to put a small amount of compost or rotted manure on each autumn/winter as crops come out or in spring in the greenhouse if you have one before you put in crops like toms/chillis/aubergine etc. Any amount is good, the more the better.

I use old builders bags for my wood chip to age them a bit but you can use it fresh on paths etc.  i use loads of woodchip on paths and also I have a fruit section with redcurrants, raspberries, blueberries and apple trees that use just woodchips, I dont use compost on that section, save it all for the veg beds.

Dowdings youtube vids are excellent, as are his books although it is from his perspective as a commercial market gardener. I think his sowing timeline is very good too on his website, as is his advice to use module trays, means you can get so many more crops in.




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Grubbypaws

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2022, 11:25 »
I have lots of leaf mould, would this work?

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snowdrops

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Re: No Dig Advice
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2022, 12:10 »
I have lots of leaf mould, would this work?

Any well rotted mulch will work, but as you know leaf mould doesn’t contain very many nutrients so you might need to feed as well.
It really is a very simple process & not as labour intensive as some people say, certainly easier than double digging with better results in my honest opinion and I have done both ways & more besides & no dig is so much better for the environment (doesn’t release carbon), the plants,the soil, bacteria, fungi, your back, less weeds, but not no weeds particularly weeds blown in from surrounding plots, but easier to hoe off. Leaves you more time to plant, less watering. What’s not to like.



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