Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => Poultry FAQs and other Information => Topic started by: Aunt Sally on April 26, 2007, 21:32
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The advice given in this topic is that of the authors and cannot be considered as professional advice. It is, however, drawn from the experience of a large number of chicken keepers.
Worms in chickens are of two general types
1. Gut worms These live in the chicken's digestive system and cause the hen not to thrive in many ways. They can be picked up by your hen from other hens or from wild birds. Transmission is via faeces.
2. Lung Worm or Gape Worm These live in the chicken's respiratory system and can be very quickly fatal by suffocation. They can be picked up by your hens eating slugs, snails and earth worms when free ranging, and from the faeces of infected birds. Birds infected with these can be seen gaping and have respiratory distress symptoms.
Frequency of worming Most vets will recommend treating your chickens for worms every 4-6 months, but this is a decision for the individual to make.
The risk to chickens of contracting worms is very variable. A small worm burden is natural for all birds and will usually not cause a problem. If you just have a few hens in a run or in your garden the risk is quite small and wild birds is normally the only way they will get them, you may choose to worm these hens less frequently. If the land you have your birds on has been used for hens for a long time the risks are higher. The greatest risk is to large flocks of free range birds, you may choose to worm these more frequently.
Worming Products
There are a number of products available for use in treatment including: Flubenvet, Panacur , Verm-X and Diatom and some other unlicensed products which some chicken keepers use.
Flubenvet Intermediate is the most commonly used. It is a white powder containing 2.5% w/w flubendazole and sold in 240g tubs. There is now a 1% formulation which is intended for small flocks. Flubenvet is a broad spectrum anthelmintic (acting to expel or destroy parasitic worms) and is for oral administration. It is active against mature and immature stages of worms in the gastrointestinal and respiratory tract. Flubendazole has no adverse effect on egg laying and hatchability and there is no need to withdraw eggs from consumption. There is zero withdrawal on chicken eggs and poultry can be slaughtered for consumption 7 days after the end of treatment.
Dosage and Administration of Flubenvet There are a number of different methods of administering flubenvet. The correct dose rate for the 2.5% formulation is 1.2g Flubenvet Intermediate (about ~¼ teaspoon full) mixed into one kilo of feed and the chickens should be fed on this for 7 consecutive days. Large birds will eat more feed, smaller ones will eat less and so they get the correct dose for their body weight. It is a good idea to restrict treats to a very small amount in the afternoon while your hens are being wormed to ensure that they eat sufficient wormer.
Another method, if you only have a few birds, is to dose each bird individually each day for 7 days. It is not possible to weigh out the correct dose on domestic scales.
2.5% formulation - use about 0.1- 0.2g per bird per day for 7 days.
1% formulation – use about 0.4 - 0.5g per bird per day for 7 days.
You will have to estimate the amount of powder needed from the volume of the 6g scoop. Hide this in a treat such as a grape which the hens gobble up without hesitating or add it to some porridgy food, mashed potato or whatever your girls like to eat.
The new 1% formulation, which does not require a mixing licence for purchase, should be used at 2.5 times the dose rate of the 2.5% formulation.
The 240g tub is 2.5% flubendazole
The 60g tub is 1.0% flubendazole
Hillfooter has given us a good method for administering the 1% formulation:
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Here's a simple mixing method for 4 L/F birds using 1% Premix. The birds must be confined during the 7 days treatment so that they eat ONLY the treated feed.
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Measure out 4KG of feed, add two scoops (2X 6grms) of wormer. Mix REALLY well and feed this exclusively for 7 days.
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WHAT TO DO WITH THE LEFTOVERS
(You'll probably have about 400grams left over which you can continue to feed for a further two days if you like or throw away. Don't add further unmedicated feed on top as you don't want to let them have a weak dilution which might breed resistance in the worms)
HOW THIS IS CALCULATED FYI
Remember 2 facts - they must be medicated for 7 days continuously, and using the 1% Premix the feed medication rate is 3grams per kg of FEED.
So first you need to calculate how much feed you will need for all the birds for 7 days. If you know your birds consumption use that, but if not work on 900grams per week, per L/F bird. So in your case that's actually 4 birds X 0.9kg = 3.6Kg (make up 4kg for ease of using scoop measure).
HOW TO MIX
Using a large container (a trug is ideal) and rubber gloves sprinkle some corn oil onto the pellets and mix well so that the pellets are just slightly darkened but not softened so they disintegrate. The oil prevents the powder settling. Sprinkle the two scoops of Flubenvet powder over the surface in several batches, as evenly as you can, and mix really well as you sprinkle each batch.
If you feed mash don't use the oil but use the mixture in 4 batches topping up the feeder every two days which you should remix each time you top up so the powder doesn't settle out.
You now have 4kg of medicated feed you can fill their feeder from and feed for the week.
HOW TO AVOID BEING CONFUSED
Don't try to follow the rather convoluted instructions provided by Janssen and stop thinking about how much medication each bird needs per day. They will eat the requisit amount of wormer for their weight provided you don't feed them anything other than the medicated feed. So NO treats or unmedicated feed. If they free range it's best to confine them so they don't eat too much unmedicated food. Don't worry about overdosing, Flubenvet has been tested at upto 2.5 times the recommended dosage with no ill effects. I prefer to slightly (<20%) overdose than under.
Some Suppliers of Flubenvet:
Petmeds (http://track.webgains.com/click.html?wgcampaignid=5333&wgprogramid=421&wgtarget=http://www.petmeds.co.uk/Products/Flubenvet-Intermediate-Game-Keeper-Pack)
The Domestic Fowl Trust (http://www.domesticfowltrust.co.uk)
SPR (http://www.sprcentre.co.uk)
Farmrite (http://www.farmrite.co.uk)
wormers . co . uk (http://www.wormers.co.uk)
Panacur is a wormer more commonly used for cats and dogs and birds which are not to be used for meat or eggs soon after dosing. If you take your hens to the vets for worming they will probably be given panacur (unless your vet specialises in chickens), one dose followed by another 10 days later if there are signs of worms is in the faeces. Vets recommend withholding eggs for 10 days after the last dose of panacur.
Diatom is another name for Diatomaceous Earth, it is 100% natural and is mined from the ground. It is comprised of the fossilised remains of diatoms (a type of algae ). The diatoms have a hard shell made of 'sharp' non-crystalline silica, which does not decompose in the lakes, or sea where diatoms lived. Thus over long periods of time large volumes of diatoms are exposed on the surface of dried out lakes. It can be added to animal feed at a rate of 5% to combat intestinal worms and can be considered an organic remedy as its action is physical rather than chemical but many chicken keepers have found it unreliable. Its efficacy is debatable.
Ivermectin Eprinex
Ivermectin was originally developed to control worms in human in the developing world countries and found its way from there on to the animal market . It is not licensed for poultry although some vets recommend it and are happy to prescribe it. You drop 2-3 drops on to skin on the back of the neck (like cat/dog flea drops), repeat after 3 days if the birds already have an infestation - it works for mites and lice too. A preventative dose can be given once a month, or less frequently in the winter. As it is not licensed for poultry opinions on egg withdrawal vary, some recommend an egg withdrawal period of 7 days and same say there is no need to withhold eggs although again as not licensed they cannot be sold.
You can read more about Ivermectin Here (http://www.pekinbantams.com/ivomec.asp) this also gives a recommended dosage.
Verm-X
Verm-X is popular with organic poultry flock keepers being based on totally natural ingredients. It can be bought over the internet and is easy to administer in small doses. As a herbal formulation, Verm-X is available off the shelf and does not have to be signed for. It’s efficacy is uncertain and we believe it has no activity against gape worm.
You can read more about Verm-X Here (http://www.verm-x.com/poultry.htm)
I recent contacted the manufacturer of Verm-x for information regarding its efficacy especially for gape worm. This is the reply I received:
Thank you for your interest in Verm-X for your Poultry.
Being 100% natural and therefore not a classified and licensed medicine we
are unable to publish or use any marketing that implies we are such - this
includes certain words e.g. 'de-wormer or anthelmintic' and prevents us from
publishing our efficacy trials.
However we have lived with this restriction since we launched in 2002 and
due to the effectiveness of our formulations the respect in Verm-X has grown
throughout our markets, recently being accepted for use on Organic Farms and
awarded recognition by an Environmental Best Practice Award Scheme supported
by the British Government.
We are aware that in the past few months independent test results from the
usage of Verm-X have been published in several publications such as
Practical Poultry, Fancy Fowl and Smallholder magazines.
In addition we are aware of different poultry chat room sites that have
received positive communication regarding usage of Verm-X.
Apologies that due to legislation I am unable to answer your specific
question with specific answers, this I fight constantly but fortunately we
have a fast growing loyal consumer base that have found Verm-X to be an
effective alternative to chemical applications.
Yours
Philip Ghazala
Paddocks Farm Partnership
Tel: +44 (0)870 850 2313
pg@verm-x.com
www.verm-x.com
Some hen keepers add Apple Cider Vinegar to their chicken's water. But is should not be relied upon as a treatment for gut parasites ! It does have other health benefits. Make sure you buy unrefined apple cider vinegar, the type sold for horses and not the sort from supermarkets.
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Hi - As usual great advice, just have one question, friend keeps ducks and one of hers did get lung worm, her vet gives her syringes of fluid that sheep farmers use - (unfortunately she is away at present and I cannot remember the name of the stuff) so once a year she catches the ducks and gives them their individual dose each - have year heard of this before which chickens? Thanks
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No... but vets often give poultry things which are not licenced for them. Frequently without giving the correct advice about egg and meat withdrawal times :evil:
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Hi - Thanks for your reply - it does not suprise me about the vets, when it is not their speciality they seem to bluster through things! which is one of the reasons a site like this is so great. Will not try the worm thing, just carry on with flubathingie stuff (sorry never remember the names and nothing is ever to hand when on the internet!) Thanks :)
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Vets are allowed to prescribe medicines not specifically for a type of animal if no suitable medicine is available. That's why common eye ointment for cats costs 5 times more than the human version. The paperwork.
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Im trying to search through the site to find out how much apple cider vinegar to add to the water, does anyone know?
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I found it for you :D
My ACV bottle says:
for horses 150ml per day
for ponies 75 ml per day
I found this information for poultry which says it much better tha I could:
ASTRINGENT SOLUTION
This solution can be used to treat young birds that show non-typical disease symptoms of poor growth. The solution can also be given to birds suffering from respiratory diseases that produce a large amount of mucus exudate. This solution will help "cut through" the mucus and allow it to be expelled easier.
Two quarts of apple cider vinegar diluted into 100 gallons of water. (4 teaspoons/gallon)
The tannin in the apple cider vinegar aide in removing any mucus or coating from the mouth, throat, or intestinal tract. Nutrients and drugs are more readily absorbed. Offer this solution as the only drinking water source for two to three day intervals.
My girls have it in their drinking water all the time :D
It's in this thread if you want to read the rest:
http://www.chat.allotment-garden.org/viewtopic.php?p=111490#111490
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Thank you! i dont think i use the search thing properly it seems to give me hundreds and hundreds of links nothing to do with what ive searched!! :roll: think ill leave the technical stuff and go sit in the shed with me chooks :shock:
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Thanks for this thread its one thing that’s being worrying me.
I’m a first time chuck keeper and have developed into an addict, the main reason I got them was for eggs (same as most I suppose) but now have become firm friends with most of them ( I have marans and Light Sussex, the Marans are a bit clicky (or should I say clucky) but the LS are more sociable, we sit outside the hen house chatting well into the evening. There I go again off the subject.
I got the birds 5 weeks ago as 1 and 2 week old chicks and kept them in a brooder under a heat lamp for the first few weeks. Now they are all settle into their new home on my lotty, free range during the day and I lock them away at night. When should I star worming them now they are out during the day, are they too young at the moment?
Thanks
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Free rangeing birds are at slightly higher risk of getting worms fro wild bird dropping snd from eating slugs, snails and worms. It is a good idea to worm them regularly.
I always recomend flubenvet which should be used every 6 months. I'd not worry about treating them until they are about 6 months old, but keep an eye on them for any problems which may indicate treating them sooner would be needed.
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Hmmmm my ducks and hens love grapes...until....I put flubenvet on/in them!......look of total disgust and horror other than one of the ducks who is so greedy and so eager to make sure that she has more of everything than anybody else she did not even look what she was gulping down.
Soooooooo plan B... in a sandwhich...butter some bread so that the powder sticks and I think they all had some.
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Soooooooo plan B... in a sandwhich...butter some bread so that the powder sticks and I think they all had some.
Brilliant Idea Violet 8)
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I use panacur sheep wormer to worm my chickens I mix it with cooking oil and then mix with grain or pellets.
I think people can worm chickens far too often. Worms are a natural phenomonon ( is that spelling right ? It doesn't look right :oops: )
I had someone ask me the other day about worming rescued battery hens, ask yourself this " What chance do battery hens ever get of picking up worms ? " The answer is little or none.
Chickens can carry a certain level of worms without them having a detrimental effect on their health.
The routine use of wormers on chickens is a little bit like routinely treating farm animals with anti biotics. There's a time to step in and treat animals but in my opinion, if its not broken why mend it. Don't get carried away with the need to worm :-)
The nice thing with the sheepwormer, is that its impossible to overdose your chickens with it. There is apparently a ten day withdrawl period before you can eat the eggs from your chickens, but I'm OK and I havent got worms either. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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As panacur is not licenced for poultry "legally" it needs to be prescribed by a vet
I've listed my opinion of risk category for hens in the main posting (quoted below) and I agree that ex-batts probably don't have worms when you get them.
The risk to chickens of contracting worms is very variable. A small worm burden is natural for all birds and will usually not cause a problem. If you just have a few hens in a run or in your garden the risk is quite small and wild birds is normally the only way they will get them, you may choose to worm these hens less frequently. If the land you have your birds on has been used for hens for a long time the risks are higher. The greatest risk is to large flocks of free range birds, you may choose to worm these more frequently.
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I have to say that half of me is asking "why am I doing this worming thing". the birds are fine. One has not laid for a couple of months, one is laying less regularly (also moulting) . Both of them seem very fit. The others are just starting to lay and look very fit. Mummy hen sith chicks seems extremely well...why am I doing it?
They do eat large amounts of slugs and such like as they are free ranging all day on very good land, lots of grass and vegetation...that if any is my only concern that they do not eat many layers pellets as they are so stuffed with everything else that they are munching.....
I think I will continue this one dosing and then leave well alone. :roll:
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You make your own assessment and take your own decisions - As long as you know what signs to look out for :!:
A lot of people get piece of mind from regular worming.
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Just wondering about the resistance of worms to flubenvet. I really don't know how it works with chickens but when we had horses the prevailing opinion at the time was to worm according to worm counts. This was obviously due to the increasing resistance of the worms/parasites to the active ingredient being used. Is this a worry with worming ckickens too regularly with something like flubenvet?
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Worming to worm counts is obviously the best way to do it and it's what I do. It costs me nothing as I have a tame parasitologist in the cupboard under the stairs :wink: But atest would cost at least £30-40 pounds and I don't know any chicken keepers willing to pay that. So the usual advice is to worm about every six months.
I advise people to take the risk level of their chickens' living conditions into account first.
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Using one particular wormer exclusivley can over a period of time lead to wormer resistance.
In every population of any creature there is likely to be a small percentage that will have a natural resistance. By killing off all the none resistant ones you are left with the remaining resistant worms. Then these breed without any competition and over a period of time you are left with a complete population of resisitant ones.
This is why in horses at any rate, its advisable to vary the type of wormer used. A worm is a worm, is a worm, so surely this advice holds good with chickens as well.
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You could very well be right Bodger, good point to think about :!:
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hello can anyone tell me if i will be able to tell if my girls have worms! ie will i be able to see them in their droppings?
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No you won't see them in the droppings unless you have treated them with flubenvet.
If they have a heavy worm burden they will apear off colour and listless and my have diarrhoea.
It is natural for free ranging chooks to have a few worms. It only becomes a problem when they have too many .
Hope that helps you chickenlady :D
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Hi Chicken Lady
The other thing that you may notice if they are heavily infested is their poops can turn light green :)
Sarah
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I forgot that point Vember !
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One natural remedy that I have heard of is Cayenne pepper, the dried powder type that one would use in good Cajun cooking. Birds do not have the receptors in their mouth for hot seeds so that part won't bother them.
One tablespoon sprinkled over their feed once a week does the trick for a friend that free ranges his birds. He has his birds vet checked every year, his wife is a vet, and when he puts birds in the freezer he also checks them then and has never found a worm.
I imagine though it only works for the round worms and as we know there are many others to contend with as well.
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Could it be coincidence that they just don't get worms ?
Call me a cynic ! :wink: :)
Rob 8)
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Could it be coincidence that they just don't get worms ?
Call me a cynic ! :wink: :)
Rob 8)
you're a cynic :lol:
So am I :wink:
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One natural remedy that I have heard of is Cayenne pepper, the dried powder type that one would use in good Cajun cooking. Birds do not have the receptors in their mouth for hot seeds so that part won't bother them.
One tablespoon sprinkled over their feed once a week does the trick for a friend that free ranges his birds. He has his birds vet checked every year, his wife is a vet, and when he puts birds in the freezer he also checks them then and has never found a worm.
I imagine though it only works for the round worms and as we know there are many others to contend with as well.
That bit about chickens not having receptors in their mouths certainly puts the Kybwash on the method of filling up empty eggs with the hottest mustard you can find to stop chickens eating their eggs. Very interesting.
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Chickens do have receptors for taste - does that mean they dont have receptors for hot pepper?
How the devil do you find out that sort of thing? :lol: :lol:
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I've found a fascinating site written by a vet on Avian Anatomy
In the past, it was thought that birds had a poorly developed sense of taste. Taste buds lie at the base of the tongue, in most species of birds. Some birds have taste buds on the inside of the tip of the lower and upper bills and there are several sites on the roof of the oropharynx, near the choana. In parrots, the taste buds are on the roof of the oropharynx on either side of the choana, and on the floor of the oropharynx at the front end of the laryngeal mound. Mallard ducks have less than 500 taste buds, compared to the 10,000 of a human and 17,000 in the rabbit. Birds do have a sense of taste, and do show definite taste preferences, as we all know!
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I've found a fascinating site written by a vet on Avian Anatomy
Mallard ducks have less than 500 taste buds, compared to the 10,000 of a human and 17,000 in the rabbit. Birds do have a sense of taste, and do show definite taste preferences, as we all know!
Does this mean they have less range of taste or less sensitivity ?
Or do they not know ?
Rob
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No idea Rob. I wouldimagine they are tuned to flavours that relate to duck survival.
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500 different flavours of grass then :roll:
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Paul, the one that told me about the Ceyenne pepper raises Old English Games that are in pens and open to visits by wild birds and in close to 40 years of raising them has never had a worm infestation and as I said he has them tested. Not a small feat either as there are over 100 roosters at any one time and probably close to 300 hens.
He is always working on new colors and defining his show stock and that is why he has so many birds.
Some zoos have taken to spraying their seed with diluted pepper juice as it keeps the rodents at bay.
Here are a few links but not the ones that I wanted, locked away in a crashed computer I'm afraid, so I will do more searching and add to them later.
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/blog/2005/10/worms-au-natural.html
http://www.officialbarrieshuttbudgerigars.com/naturesmedicines.htm
http://www.uvm.edu/pss/vtcrops/?Page=research/pasture/Parasites.html
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Hi there, probably a stupid question but you say Flubenvet Intermediate is applied orally... does this mean you add it to the girls food??
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That's right - as described in the article above !
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Knew it, stupid question! :wub:
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This goes back to the early descriptions of the effects of cider vinegar and the comment that the tannin is important. Does anybody give (cold) tea to their birds? Could it cause a problem? I've only had birds for a month and it's a steep learning curve - I wouldn't have coped without this site. Thanks to all posters (& of course Sally) who have given me confidence and practical advice.
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Hi ehs284. Welcome to the forums. You can introduce yourself to the wider membership in the Welcome forum. :)
Good question. I can't wait to find out the answer ! :)
Rob 8)
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ACV contains quite a few other benificial things too,
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/applecidervinegardiet/a/applecidervineg.htm