Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Poultry and Pets => Poultry FAQs and other Information => Topic started by: mambo on October 22, 2007, 06:17

Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: mambo on October 22, 2007, 06:17
Morning All,

I am pretty sure that we have a couple of rats who are burrowing under our compost heap. They seem to have a run from the compost heap across the garden and under the fence where they appear to be living under next door's decking. Currently no body is living nextdoor, but having been empty for almost a year we are expecting new neighbours soon. I check morning and night and there is no damage to the coup or run (my chooks are completly enclosed) so assume the rats know where they are but are ignoring them at the moment. Can anyone advise on the best way of getting rid of them? We want to put poison under the compost heap, but I'm concern that if a rat in the final throws managed to get into the coup and died, if the chickens pecked at it they would also be posoned and how would if effect the eggs they produced?

There was a bit of a scene last night when the four of them were pecking and ripping something apart. At first I thought it was a mouse, but it turned out to be a huge slug! I'm sure they would do the same with a dying rat or mouse. Can any one offer any help on this one?
Thanks Mambo
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: SMIFFY on October 22, 2007, 07:14
Morning Mambo, living in the middle of no-where, I am in a constant fight with mice and rats.I didn't want to use poison for the same reasons as yourself. I just went out and bought 3 large Rat Traps. I put them out on the rat runs each night after putting my girls to bed. So far it seems to be working as I get something whether mouse or rat each night.All I do then is collect them up before my girls come out in the morning. I have found that a cooked sausage brings in best results.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: slowef on October 22, 2007, 09:09
Look at Muntys advice I have made one and not sure if its working but we have loads here, they go to the nest to die so hens pecking dead bodies should't be a problem apparently.  He is an experienced guy so if it works for him its good enough for me.  They are simple to make even I could do it.  I got some Roban to use as its for rats and mice but my kittens seem to be on the case of the mice :?  find at least one a day usually headless in the utility room :(

http://www.chat.allotment-garden.org/viewtopic.php?t=8854&highlight=rats
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: mambo on October 22, 2007, 09:48
Thanks for the advice,

I had a rat trap in the loft so have baited it with chocolate (but next time will try a sausage!) and will try Munty's run traps.

Interestingly, we have a raised pond which has an ajoining flower bed, and the critters appears to have also burrowed down there (hubby swears he can see paw prints, but I'm not so sure!). Also daren't put poison down there incase it gets disturbed and knocked into the water. We also have a dog, so don't want to put her at risk.

I'm thinking that we will all be seeing more of rats, I increased my composting to be more environmentally friendly but also because our council have reduced rubbish collections. Hubby thinks they may well leave the chooks alone as there's easier pickings from folks bins!
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 11:47
soon as they find the chuck feed they will be in  ,and they are loving your pond they will dig in the banks to make nests .and the compost heap will keep them nice and warm over winter ,start thinking plague now and you may get on top of them .the local council should be controlling rats on the nieghbouring properties and anywhere else they reside you ned to act now to stop it getting worse .get tunnels made and spread them around the areas where the rats live and go ,put bricks or heavy wieghts over them to stop any dog or child getting into them .use poison to control them now and back it up with traps ina few weeks .

see pic for rat tunnel design
 :wink:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/rats1.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/rats2.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/rats.jpg)

entry hole for rats under concrete
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/PICT0055-1.jpg)

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/rats6.jpg) undermining slabs by rats

rat trap in wood pile
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/Karl0101/rats7.jpg)
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on October 22, 2007, 13:39
I posted this on the forum when I arrived. I thinks its worth having a look at. :D


Well I’m only really qualified to talk on one subject and as I would like to contribute to this new forum , my chosen topic as a one time professional pest controller, has got to be that of vermin.

In my work I use a veritable arsenal of rodenticide, pesticide, gas and traps against the constant menace of a seemingly ever growing throng of pests.

We as chicken keepers are in the frontline when it comes to the number one pest species. The Rat! We owe it to our neighbours, families and to our birds to wage a 365 days of the year all out war against the rat. I shouldn’t have to tell you of the dangers they pose but if you’d seen some of the sights that I’ve beheld, then you would understand why I say that even one rat on your place is unacceptable.

Ugh! Rats! I hate them.

The number one tool against rat has got to be poison. A good dog or a trap will catch rats but it will never get them all. The right poison put down in the right way often will.

When I turn out to an infestation I split the job into two definite halves. The first is to get rid of the rats and then just as importantly to try and prevent re-infestation .

Rats need two things to survive – that’s food and harbourage. If you can deny one or both of them, then you are on to a winner.

Most of the measures which need to be taken are just sheer common sense but if you are anything like me then you are an expert at putting off the blatantly obvious.

Firstly, do get yourself secure food bins with tight fitting lids. Don’t leave food in paper sacks and expect rats and mice to find the paper impenetrable.

Do try to feed your birds the right amount of food so that they clean up pretty quickly. Don’t leave great amounts at the bottom of runs especially after the birds have gone to roost.

Now onto harbourage. Harbourage is pest control jargon for somewhere to live. Unless you are fortunate enough to have tailor-made accommodation, the chances are that your bird houses will have inherent design faults that will encourage rats to stay for bed and breakfast with you. However if you keep your place tidy then you are on the right track.
By tidy, I mean get the scrap man in to remove that rusting pile of old junk and put a match to that pile of old wood or rubbish and generally get rid of that rat hotel!

Two things that I would suggest that you try and do whenever possible is to raise your existing sheds up off the floor and try to get 18 -24 inches clearance so that you can see if you have got unwanted visitors beneath your buildings.

Secondly, you can save all the tin sheet you can get and get it nailed flush to the bottom of all your doors and even consider using it to clad vulnerable areas

Now down to poison. The number one rule with poison is don’t skimp. Being ‘tight’ with your poison could mean that the rats get a sub-lethal dose and encourage resistance or bait shyness.

Warfarin has been on the market for 30-40 years and is known as a first generation anti-coagulant. You can still get it but it really has come to the end of its shelf life. With Warfarin you have to get the rats to eat an amount of poison over a period of time. Warfarin is what is known as a multi dose poison.

In the past ten years we have had the advent of a number of so called second generation anti-coagulants. They still use the same methodology to kill the rats but are single-dose poisons. The rats have to consume a lot less of the poison and only have to have one feed on the bait to get a good kill rate.

Down to practicalities. You need to keep poison down in the form of bait stations all year round and in that way you’ll never get a build up of vermin.

Bait stations can take the form of lengths of plastic or clay pipes placed in strategic positions. If you have the pipes about 3 foot long you can spoon the bait into the middle of it so that only rats can get at it.

Rat poison is now also sold in the form of wax blocks. These are excellent, if a bit expensive. They are weather resistant and can be nailed to the sides of sheds on rat runs and are less likely to attract the chickens.

One thing that I would advise against is the use of scatter bags. Although they might appear handy they aren’t as good as they are cracked up to be. Rat colonies have a definite hierarchy and the dominant rats often carry the bags away to keep them from their lesser brethren, hide them and forget where they put them so the poison is lost and therefore wasted.

Yeah! When it comes to pests I’m a mine of information and could literally go on and on, and if any of you members need advice on rodents or insects etc, then just PM me !  :D

I have some pictures of how to set Fenn traps for rats which I'll root out as well :D
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 13:56
brilliant thanks a lot bodger old chap :wink:  always better hearing the real facts  about how the jobs done
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on October 22, 2007, 14:15
Fenn traps set in the right places and in the right way can be a useful tool in the fight against rats.

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m180/kcooper2006/dadtrap.jpg)

They can be set in wooden tunnels like these. This keeps none target species such as cats and dogs safe from them. Rats also love to run through tunnels and the use of a tunnel actually assists in catching the rats as well as being safer. Set you tunnels along wire netting fence margins and along side your chicken sheds.

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m180/kcooper2006/dadtrap2.jpg)
In the picture you should just about be able to see the single strand of mains electric fence wire that I use around all my pens to stop foxes from digging in .

Here's one I caught earlier. The rat is killed instantly by having its body crushed by the Fenn.

Beat this hamster Manuel !

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m180/kcooper2006/GWBT/rat2.jpg)

(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m180/kcooper2006/GWBT/rat1.jpg)

A genuine 16" :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 14:16
can i borow a  saddle  :shock:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: tallulah on October 22, 2007, 14:58
Hi, I'm new to this forum.  I have 2 lovely hens in the back garden.  We've been ravaged by rats this year, and I was on the point of getting the hens re-homed.  I'm such a wimp when it comes to killing anything, or poisoning anything, or hurting anything in any way, that I avoided addressing the rat problem by sticking my head in the sand.  My neighbours however were affected by this so I had to take action.  I had a large compost heap next to a shed, which the rats tunnelled in, and then straight through into the shed, playing havoc with everything there.  The hen food was in plastic bins - silly me - these were nawed through.  Then the rats were under a second shed, which is raise an inch off the concrete.  So many homes for them.  The council came and put down anticoagulant in various places, and I put the hens elsewhere so I could get rid of all food sources.  It worked.  For a while .... now they're back.  I need to harden myself to put some more lethal poison down under the shed - if I could just persuade myself that 'it won't hurt, and they'll just drift off into a pleasant sleep'!  We have a lurcher (lethal to rabbits, but not to rats) and a terrier, who stakes the shed out but has never caught one.  The cat bypasses the rats altogether and goes for rabbit.  Useless animals!  Interestingly, they all get on with the hens, and they mingle in one large flock of bird & mammal.   I suppose my wimpish nature isn't unusual - any advice welcome!
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 15:06
where abouts in suffolk are you tallulah you definatly need a control system in place now ...and welcome to the site .pop up to welcomes and say hiya  :wink:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on October 22, 2007, 15:13
This sounds nasty and I really don't want to be but if you keep chickens you should be prepared to deal with any vermin that they may attract.

Rats are a serious health hazard to you, your family and to your neighbours. Its a responsibility IMO when you undertake to keep any livestock, not just by law but also morally.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: tallulah on October 22, 2007, 15:22
Thanks Munty and Bodger - I live near Woodbridge Munty.  Yes, I do definately need a control system in place.  And yes I agree that I have a moral duty apart from anything else, to keep the area clear of rats, its not a nasty thing to say, just true - I said I was a wimp didn't I?  My husband is even more of a wimp so I get no sound advice from him.  I love my hens, and love keeping them, and also value my neighbours' health as well as my own, so am working toward a solution.  I keep the garden scrupulously clean now, best I can, and we stopped feeding the garden birds in the spring, thanks to the rats.  Best poison?  Easy to get hold of?
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 15:26
you can get it at farm suppliers around your area they stock 2 or 3 brands of poison both in blocks and seed preperations i would advise going for the seed in your situation..make and  place the rat tunnels as shown on here following the advice given by bodger and myself to get them sorted .you will succeed  :wink:  :lol:  i live up in lowestoft and have regular rats coming in from the fields now winters here :D
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: tallulah on October 22, 2007, 15:29
Thanks for that!  I'll get the wood out - just about to make raised beds so will get it done at same time.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 22, 2007, 15:30
how much land have you got to work over ? it may pay you to run  a trap and poison line around the boundaries of your property
 :wink:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: mambo on October 22, 2007, 20:32
Many thanks for all your sterling advice. Operation rat annihilation now well and truly underway!

Over and out

commando Mambo
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: chiken dood on October 29, 2007, 20:58
I am soon to get chickens :D  :D  do you now any ways i can prevent rats and mice coming. if so what. :?  :?  :?
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 30, 2007, 00:15
start by killling them before you have the chickens  :wink: les the * to kill when you get the birds n they find loads food n breed tpo eat the blooming stuff lol
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on October 30, 2007, 11:58
This is a short but I believe interesting extract that I've taken from a very old book called 'A Pot of Smoke. Being the life and adventures of dan Owain' by an author called RM Lockley. Its a pre 1940s book and is one that I intend getting a copy of. See what you think.

One autumn morning when three of us were coming home after a night watching for poachers,tired and done up physically and mentally, for it was cold, and there had been a skiff of snow covering everything that night, we heard a curious sound on the hill road. It was like the whistling of a bunch of starlings, only more squeaky.

Suddenly I discerned the road ahead of us was black instead of white. The rats were coming - the whole army of them covering the road until it curved out of sight up the hill fifty yards away. Only one thought struck us three - to get up somewhere high! Harrison was for turning them with a shot at first, and Evans was for running away, but we were already dead beat, and I thought it best to leave well alone... besides which the sight held us fascinated. We scrabbled on to a five barred gate... I can tell you it was a horrible feeling to be sitting there with thousands of rats passing by, there wicked eyes gleaming...and for some reason or other very excited with their tails held high up like fox hounds scenting ... squeaking, and some of them looking up at us pretty hungrily, I though. Well, they didn't touch that gate, and, what's more, I noticed they veered off our foot marks as if they could smell something dangerous. After they had gone down the hill we slowly followed...there wasn't a square inch of the road that wasn't pitted with their patterns.

We found afterwards that they'd been thrashing in two or three farms on the mountain ... the rats had been starved out, and with the first skiff of snow they'd joined in a great army to move off at night to the valleys for food. That very night the mansion of Preswillfa was invaded by hundreds of rats which took possession of the old place, filling the wainscots and panelling until the running and squeaking and gnawing frightened the gentlefolk out of their wits. A gamekeeper was called in, and as he was a pal of mine he asked me to assist him in dealing with them. This is what he planned to do ... he meant to get rid of the lot in one go. He blocked up all the holes except those in the attic, and these holes - in the skirting of the attic - he covered with trapdoors regulated by strings slung from the rafters. There we fed them every night... I never thought rats would get so brazen, but in a very few nights the rats were expecting their meals regular as a major-general. They very soon got used to us watching them come out for food ... we'd go up and lay the food, and watch them running around in battalions by the light of a candle ... feeding from the big saucers and troughs and drinking from the pans of water; in fact , they'd hardly wait for us to put the food down before they'd be at it like chickens around out feet. The young master of the house loved to come and watch... well, the attic got in a bad state after two weeks, for hundreds of rats were leaving their droppings ... and the mistress of the house was anxious to proceed with the big coup. So we got busy on the fifteenth night with the strychnine, oatmeal, sugar, and whisky - only a dash of the last. We fed the mixture in little scraps at a time, so as to get them all out and hungry for it. The rats were eating, rushing to water, and rolling over dead ... the sugar made them thirsty, and whisky made them light headed, and the strychnine killed them. Some rushed for the trap doors but we had dropped them, and they would only open inwards, and so they were trapped and none could escape. We killed over five hundred the first night, seventy the next and only three on the third night.

Dan Owen: A Pot of Smoke.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on October 30, 2007, 12:05
the bit with the strychinie is good as i still have a jar of it for moles i dig a few werms n touch the ends in the powder n drop em down the run ...... moles never show again :wink: .
Title: rats and chickens
Post by: Viv on November 03, 2007, 08:31
After reading all this I am about to start my defence against the rat. I haven't seen any signs but looking at your posts it will happen. Do you remove the poisons during the day or do you leave them down?  Are they safe for the hens? Sorry if I'm asking the daft questions.  :?:  :D
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on November 03, 2007, 11:03
they stay down all the time you need to refill the trays .. you need to make sure no animal other than rats or mice get to the seed . see tunnel in search for an easy rat baiting station ,make a few of these up and bait around the area :wink:  :)
Title: another question
Post by: Viv on November 03, 2007, 12:55
I live in the countryside, surrounded by sheep,in the next field, cows around the corner and loads of horses, so, am I already on a losing battle as there will be rats here anyway? we have no main drains, the village, 30 properties in total are all on cess pits?
What would you all do? :?:  :)  :?
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on November 03, 2007, 13:01
run a trap line like wot i do .im in avillage next to the fileds etc .since 1st oct i have kiled 13 rats .all 1/2 growed  so far  and im using poison as well :wink:
Title: RATS!
Post by: NanaJune on February 18, 2008, 16:35
I am so glad to see all of this info on rats.  We live in North Texas, USA.  They have bought up all the land next to us and put in a subdivision of homes at the end of our road.  Now, we are being BOMBARDED with field rats who have no place else to go.  I've fought a few mice before - but nothing like I've seen this winter.  I mean RATS - big ones.  My cat and dogs handle the smaller mice, but I think my cat is afraid of these bu99ers!  I have 20 hens, 3 roosters, and lots of quail.  Consequently, we have lots of feed around.  

I have been afraid of the poisons because of my birds, cats, dogs, etc.  I have one hen who had a poisoned rat and the next day was blind (coincidence? - I don't know for sure).  Anyway, I am afraid of my cat or dogs or birds eating a poisoned rat.  We have put out traps, made "feed barrel traps" as my husband calls them, and secured all feed in metal bins.  But the population doesn't seem to be dwindling as much as we had hoped.  Our feed room floors are off the ground, and our brooding house is completely secure. But the hen houses and chicken runs are not.

Are the poisons truly safe to use around all of my animals?
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on February 23, 2008, 08:50
Poison is as safe as you make it. Used incorrectly, its dangerous but then so is a toaster or a car.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Ruby Red on March 22, 2008, 20:27
Quote from: "tallulah"
Thanks Munty and Bodger - I live near Woodbridge Munty.  Yes, I do definately need a control system in place.  And yes I agree that I have a moral duty apart from anything else, to keep the area clear of rats, its not a nasty thing to say, just true - I said I was a wimp didn't I?  My husband is even more of a wimp so I get no sound advice from him.  I love my hens, and love keeping them, and also value my neighbours' health as well as my own, so am working toward a solution.  I keep the garden scrupulously clean now, best I can, and we stopped feeding the garden birds in the spring, thanks to the rats.  Best poison?  Easy to get hold of?[/quote      
   
   If you love your hens then get rid of your rats. If the rats come in your garden they are peeing and leaving their droppings all over the place. Then your hens scratch about pecking the soil and getting contaminated. The eggs in the process also get contaminated.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Kiwi on May 01, 2008, 06:58
Ew Rats.
We live on a farm and only occasionally see a dead rat - we have 5 cats! But we know they're there as we see poop sometimes in our wool shed.
We bait all year round, the rat man showed me how to make cheap bait stations.
Get a piece of down pipe - an old off-cut or something. Cut it to about a foot and a bit. Drill small holes about an inch in from either side and loop wire through them. The loop should go right round the inside of the tube. Thread the rat bait that has the holes in through it. Works a treat and your other animals can't get at it.

One of our cats sits with the chickens who cluck around it and catches any mice that go into their house!
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: ratman on May 04, 2008, 02:11
Quote from: "muntjac"
the bit with the strychinie is good as i still have a jar of it for moles i dig a few werms n touch the ends in the powder n drop em down the run ...... moles never show again :wink: .


http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/approvals.asp?id=1475

Just for info Munty, No doubt the jar is empty now anyway mate  :wink:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: muntjac on May 04, 2008, 08:37
Quote from: "ratman"
Quote from: "muntjac"
the bit with the strychinie is good as i still have a jar of it for moles i dig a few werms n touch the ends in the powder n drop em down the run ...... moles never show again :wink: .


http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/approvals.asp?id=1475

Just for info Munty, No doubt the jar is empty now anyway mate  :wink:


 why of course it is  :wink:
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Porffor on June 08, 2008, 20:00
so relieved to see all these tips.. 4 found today.. all coming for a feed.. all day long!  :evil: not for long...
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Oliveview on July 28, 2008, 19:45
I have some metal tubing left over from when we did the chimney, would that make a good bait station?  If so, should I bait it first with food to encourage the rats to eat there?  I saw another rat the other night, I set the trap (with great difficulty, it kept springing shut) but didn´t catch anything, one morning the trap was shut but no rat :(
The rat ran under the log pile, so I will get hubby to move the logs- just incase one runs out! His job for when he returns from the UK :D
Pamela
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Oliveview on July 29, 2008, 12:54
I have set the bait so fingers crossed the rat will go in the tube to find food from now on.  I don´t fill the hens feeder up so full now as they just chucked the food everywhere and we have stopped the grain, they were leaving that and chuking it on the floor too.  I take up the feeder once they go to roost.  I was up late this morning- boy were the hens complaining about no feeder :shock:  I got a real telling off from them for sleeping in :roll:
Pamela
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: HPC on September 17, 2008, 21:34
Please remember to wear protective gloves when disposing of rodents, they are best buried or burnt.

be safe and please read this link .......

  http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3668270.Brighton_woman_killed_by_rat/%20/
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Smallholder on September 27, 2008, 15:37
Unless you remove all poultry feed from the area rats are in before dark they will not take any bait set for them.
I empty all my feeders and the only thing for them to eat is poison..Make sure your birds cannot get at it.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: Bodger on October 01, 2008, 09:52
Quote from: "HPC"
Please remember to wear protective gloves when disposing of rodents, they are best buried or burnt.

be safe and please read this link .......

  http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3668270.Brighton_woman_killed_by_rat/%20/


Members should be aware that  the newspaper report is a bit misleading and that Weils disease is not a rare disease. A large percentage of the UK rat population actually carry it and can pass it on to humans and animals through their infected urine.

Farmers and poultry keepers are at risk but so can anyone taking part in sports and activities in and on our inland waterways. The infected urine can be deleted many millions of times and still be dangerous. The infection can be taken in through the bare skin and does not need to be absorbed through a cut or a scratch.

Rats are not fluffy little animals and this is why a constant war needs to be waged against them.
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: HPC on October 01, 2008, 12:55
Very true Bodger :thumleft:
When this particular case was reported on the TV news in my area, it was reported just as Bodger has pointed out  RARE this is not correct it is media miss  information at its best  :roll:  most cases are not recorded  !!
Recently there was a case in the north where a building site worker was trying to remove some plant machinery from a area that had flooded on the site, they wore no particular personel protection equipment whilst working in some puddles, he returned to his caravan to be found dead several days later......   http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/08/14/exclusive-killer-rats-alert-after-flood-worker-killed-by-rare-weil-s-disease-86908-20696342/

This has been taken  from the Leptospirosis Information Center

http://www.leptospirosis.org/   Click here and read it, it could save lives knowing about this disease. This family wasn't aware of it, but it isn't as rare as being made out.
 Bob died of Weil's disease, the acute form of Leptospirosis, the source of which we have never found. This country is now at risk of having the same problem already being experienced throughout the world, yet we are in ignorance of the disease. Lately, many workers in our ports, water works, quarries or other areas where rats are in abundance, are being warned and given guidance as to the prevention of contacting the disease. Our doctors aren't recognising the symptoms quickly enough and if treatment is not given quick enough, the toxins invade so fast, your dying within a week. Bob had never been to a doctor in years, never been in hospital, but within a week of taking poorly, his liver and kidneys shut down, his heart and lungs becoming affected.
We have a major rat problem in this country and since last October, councils have been unable to cope with the complaints of rat populations, not only in rural areas, but housing estates and towns. Not a wonder, when we are providing them with generous amounts of food because of poor collections of waste. This Government has put us all at risk and this disease is horrible and painful.
Please click on the link I have provided and read it. If you suspect any of the symptoms, get help immediately and do not be fobbed off with flu. Early action saves your life.
Response from the Leptospirosis Information Center [CASE ID:6349FED]
 
In reply to your query:-
We are sorry for your loss, and fully understand your concerns over the lack of awareness in the general medical community. Leptospirosis is an infection which is 'officially' very rare in the UK, with only a few cases reported to the Health Protection Agency each year. Because of this, there is no general program of education beyond the diagnostic and specialist sectors, and medical students are unlikely to encounter the condition (or even be taught about it) unless they choose to specialise in infectious disease. One of the difficulties is that the infection presents a range of symptoms that mimic several far more common illnesses, and so a patient presenting to a GP will not stand out as anything unusual and so prompt them to seek a second opinion. Many times the diagnosis is only made when the condition worsens, as in your case, or when a patient specifically explains what they believe the cause to be (as is the case with infections from specialist occupations, where the patient has been told how to report it).
 
Despite the reported incidence being very low, the true figures are of course far larger - many patients with a mild form of the infection will self-recover and often won't even contact their GP, and even in severe and fatal cases it's common for the diagnosis to be missed, and the physical effects attributed to another (more common) illness.

Education is important, and in developing countries where the infection is more common, school and community education programmes are extensively used and very effective. However in the UK a balance must be drawn between educating and causing panic, as despite there being clear risks the statistical probability of "infection per person per year" is very small. Unfortunately this ratio drives government policy, and so there is no general education program in the UK. Workplace health protection is a different issue, and employees at elevated risk are provided with extensive information by the HSE and HPA - however there are no plans to provide specific information to general practitioners, many of whom instead use services such as ours for advice.
 
Here is some more information.....

Rats can transmit at least 35 diseases to humans, including leptospirosis (very, very common) and the plague (very rare). Other diseases transmittable by rats include: typhus, rabies, tularemia, trichinosis, leishmaniasis, spirilary rat bite fever, and spirochetal jaundice.
In practice, keeping yourself and your dog disease-free is relatively easy, provided you use common sense:
 Inoculate your dog. Nothing is more important than a full inoculation. This should inlcude an innouculation for leptospirosis. Some dogs have an adverse reaction to this shot and some areas have a form of lepto that the vaccine does not work to prevent, but any dog that is ratting should have a lepto shot. Period.
 Try to reduce your physical contact with the rats. Wear gloves. Put rubber bands around your pants legs in areas where rats are really swarming, and handle rats only by grabbing their tails. Some folks use salad tongs as "rat tongs".
 Stay out of puddles and all other water where rats may have urinated. You and your dog can catch leptospirosis by coming into contact with puddles and other water into which a rat may have urinated. Have a ready supply of clean water your dog can drink from so it is less likely to drink from a puddle into which a rat has urinated.
 
Do not let your dog chew on a rat. Most dogs will bite, shake, snap, and drop a rat in the speed it takes to read this sentence. If your dog attempts to carry or chew on the rat, discourage this by yelling at it, bribing it, or even smacking it (gently) in the muzzle with a leash. In fact, some dogs are simply "mashers" and "crunchers" and there is nothing to be done about it.
 After ratting use bleach. Wash you clothes with an extra shot of bleach, take a hot shower, and use bleach on your hands with special attention around the fingernails.
 If you get sick, go to a doctor FAST. Most diseases are treatable, but getting to a doctor early is important in every single case. If you cannot afford to go to a doctor, do not go ratting.
 
Leptospirosis or Weil's Disease
An astonishing 55 percent of all rats are reputed to carry leptospirosis, with

over 66 percent of all city rats reportedly infected.




   Also called "rat catcher's yellows", leptospirosis is very easily

transmittable to both dogs and humans. Nearly every animal can catch

leptospirosis -- horses, pigs, cats, dogs, human -- but the rat, ironically,

is immune.
•   Assume all rats have letospirosis.
•   You do not need to be bitten by a rat to catch the disease. Leptospirosis can be transmitted through contact with water into which a dog or rat has urinated. If you see a puddle of water near where you see rats, assume it is highly contaminated.
•   Leptospirosis attacks the liver in both humans and dogs, and causes a kind of jaundice. Dogs (and humans too, presumably) with leptospirosis have feces that are putty-colored since they are devoid of the pigment produced by bile which has been diverted to the skin (causing a yellowing of the eyes and skin in humans).
•   Dogs with leptospirosis are listless, off-color, and will generally refuse to go on walks. Though they will be off their food, they will be very thirsty and drink a great deal of water. At the same time they are consuming vast quantities of water, a dog will become dehydrated as it tries to flush its body of the disease.
•   Treatment is fairly expensive and takes time as it relies an massive amounts of antibiotics. Animals can die even with antibiotic treatment.
•   Prevention through inoculation may be possible. The good news is that an annual inoculation against leptospiral jaundice is often effective, but some dogs have adverse reactions to lepto vaccine, and some areas have forms of lepto for which no vaccine has yet been developed.

I hope this will come in use to all of you, when dealing with rat problems :)
Title: Rats and Chickens
Post by: HPC on October 01, 2008, 12:56
For some reason this posted twice :roll:  but it should be read twice :wink: