[happy chick]

A friend of mine last week lost his lovely cream legbar to Marek's-diagnosed by the vet.  His advice to me was to make sure that any birds I purchase have been vaccinated against Marek's and not to touch any that haven't.  I've noticed on the internet that some breeders operate a breed for resistance policy.  How effective is this or would it be better to buy vaccinated birds?  I was wondering what policy our Grannie thinks is best? :?

[nnbreeder]

I personally would go for the vaccinated birds. Even then there is still a chance for them to get it though. I've never heard of a flock that could be bred for resistance.

[GrannieAnnie]

What's a breed for resistance policy?   A breed of chicken that's more resistant to Mareks than others?  

Personally, I think you'd be better off getting vaccinated chicks.  All ours are vaccinated at the hatcheries, even the meat chicks.

[happy chick]

Thank you very much for your answers.
Yes, seriously some breeders and suppliers of poultry on the internet are claiming that they do not routinely vaccinate against Marek's because they breed only from strains of birds that have shown resistance to the disease.  This link also claims that it might be possible to do this ie breed for resistance;
http://www.the-coop.org/wwwboard/discus/messages/1/6232.html

I have no chickens(yet), and am a complete newbie when it comes to all things poultry related.  I have come across this notion about breed for resistance quite frequently recently when browsing and I dearly wanted to know what others out there thought!  I am more than happy to name the poultry breeders on the internet who say thay are doing this if this helps.  Thank you so far for your answers; I'm very interested to know what you all think

[nnbreeder]

On another note it has been suggested that the Naked Neck breed of birds are resistant to Cocci and other diseases but I have read nothing specific about Mareks yet.

[Foxy]

Actually there are breeds more suscepible to Mareks and there are some strains that have a genetic resistance. Vaccinations also may not always be 100% effective, and good hygiene and low stress levels are key factors also.
But a good idea despite all that- particulary if hatched in a hatchery or large flock is to go for vaccinated birds. Birds in a "closed flock" small breeders for example, carry a far lower risk of developing Mareks. It can also one of the potential problems with buying from an unknown source like an auction, where you may unknowingly bring the virus into your own flock and may not know until its too late as birds infected with Mareks will not present with symptoms until under stress, coming into lay for example. Hope this helps and im not rambling!

[happy chick]

Thanks Foxy and NN - really helpful.  I personally would buy vaccinated birds every time especially after seeing friend's afflicted bird.  I also feel that the breed for resistance policy may be a very useful excuse for some unscrupulous suppliers not to vaccinate.  

[Aunt Sally]

Marek's vaccination is not a total preventative for Marek's disease.

The vaccination does NOT prevent the birds picking up and carrying the virus but it does prevent the formation of tumours.  So I think it may still be possible for them to pass it on to other birds.

This is why some poultry breeders and fanciers feel  that breeding for resistance is best.

Bodger may have some views on this, perhaps he'll be along to comment.

[nnbreeder]

According from what I have just read in the Merck Vet Manual it should be assumed that Mereks is present in all flocks and resistance can be bred into a flock, but my question is " without expensive testing just how would one know that their birds are resistant?"

[Bodger]

Basically, as a breeder if you commit to vaccinating for Mareks disease, then thats it, you need to do it every year there after.

The vaccination does not lend itself to use by the small breeder. This is because it only comes in commercial sized doses, it wont keep after being activated and to be effective all chicks have to be injected as day olds. In other words, you can't even save batches of chicks up and do them when you have a larger number. If you innoculate week old chicks, you are wasting your time because they will have already taken in the virus.

I'm also lead to believe that the vaccine is far from being 100% effective in preventing your birds getting the disease.

Touch wood, by killing anything that has come down with the disease and not buying in new birds every other week, my flock has built up a resistance to Mareks. It must be at least five years since I had a case here.
If I was to vaccinate, it might allow non resistant birds to survive and in a few years, my work would be undone and then I'd be committed to uneconomical vaccination each and every year. I'd rather take the occasional loss than lose this resistance.

To conclude, I'd ask people not to shun unvaccinated birds as being second rate and also, not to bank on birds advertised as having been vaccinated against Mareks disease remaining healthy.

[happy chick]

Thank you, Bodger for such an informative and enlightening answer.
I'm now starting to feel like a can of worms have been opened eveywhere!!
This topic really isn't straightforward and there seems to be no definitive answers on this one.  I really am now sitting on the fence as to what I would do if I wanted to buy in some pure breeds to replace lost stock in the future.  I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it!!

[Bodger]

To complicate matters for you even further, certain breeds tend to be more susceptable to Mareks. The ever popular silkie falls into this category I'm afraid. I'll ask a few friends and come back to you on which other breeds tend to get it more commonly, if that will help sway your decision.

[happy chick]

That would be great to have a list/idea of which birds are more susceptible because I think it would might incline me away from those breeds.  I also think that I've read somewhere (either on this site or others) that the Sebright is another bird very susceptible to Mareks.  

All in all, I think it's good to be aware that not all breeders vaccinate and there are different approaches out there in dealing with diseases.  
As buyers (especially novice buyers like myself) it's important to know what these differing approaches to controlling disease are so that we know what the breeder is talking to us about, and more importantly, know exactly what it is that we're potentially purchasing.  Caveat emptor and all that!!

[Foxy]

I think its important when considering buying chickens that there are diseases out there and Mareks is just one that can cause illness, death as well as infecting other birds.

Possibly a golden rule is to have a good look at how the birds are being kept. If all looks clean and obviously looks well maintained -like henhouses although may be old are in good repair and bedding reasonably fresh(not spotless necessarily   ) would demonstrate that the breeder cares about their health and well being. Look at waterers and feeders, do they look clean and full or dirty and full of droppings.  Look at the area they chickens are in -does it look overgrazed? or stagnant - that would indicate maybe too many birds in a small area or birds not moved periodically to fresh grass- a risk factor for some diseases
The birds themselves should have bright eyes, healthy red combs (if old enough!) and be pecking around. Vent feathers should be clean too -(in most cases :shock: ).
 Dont be afraid to ask loads of questions! -do they focus and breed themselves just a few strains like Bodger for example? as opposed to buying in lots of different birds just to sell. A reputable breeder also will be more than happy to show off their happy and healthy chickens!
Breeders with good husbandry are likely to give you happy healthy birds without any problems -and if you do have any they will be  just as concerned as you are!

[nnbreeder]

Another thing to consider is that when you do find information about disease under trearment it will often say to cull the flock. Most of the info out there is written for the big commercial operations that have 50,000 birds in a barn. For them it is more economical to cull out, disinfect and start over. After all they are usually insured to cover big losses
Many of us small breeders have had to muddle through treatments to try to save our flocks and take a chicken to the vet? Around here you'd think you were commiting a crime! After all why spend a thirty dollar office call plus meds on a 2 dollar chicken?
Thank goodness for the internet and the ability to share information with keepers all over the globe.
Here in the U.S. we are lucky too that many meds can be had over the counter at the feed store. Especially here on the Plains where cattle were once king.