[nappy501]

Hi Everyone,

I have had my name down for an allotment for sometime.   At the end of March I was told I have one.

I have some early photographs here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39355512@N00/sets/72157623653068831/

I was told by the secretary it is in a right state, so I do not have to pay rent for the first two years.  Because of the condition I only have to go up the plot as far as I can manage and they will spray the rest for me.

So the children and I have started digging.
We have also watched some episodes of Gardener's World on iplayer.

In our little garden at home, I have some Jerusalem artichokes in troughs, about six strawberry plants and some rhubarb.  We also keep 4 chickens, so I have 3 plastic compost bins full of stuff. Normally what happens is someone comes and takes the majority of our chicken droppings/sawdust/straw away.

There is some work happening in the town centre and I have requested a couple of pallet boxes that they had the stone slabs in for compost boxes.

My difficulty is, I am new to this and I am having trouble planning the plot.

The things we like to eat:
Salad, lettuce, cucumbers, peppers, red onion. (Two of us would love to have tomatoes, but one child has an intolerance to them, so we don't eat them raw, and we caught her picking them off the plant).
Potatoes,
Beans (kidney beans, lentils, chickpeas)
Sweet corn, carrots, broccoli, occasionally cauliflower, spinach, peas.
Pumpkin, squashes

All sorts of fruit when it gets cheap enough in season.  I have a particular fondness for blueberries.

The council has lots of fruit trees planted around, so we collect cherries and blackberries for free.

What I would like to do is be organic as much as possible, companion plant.  Use a fixed bed system and work on a 5 year rotation.

If you see the plan I have started I thought, I could start on the five beds and they would be as long as we can prepare soil.  Then this autumn we can prepare more ground and make the beds longer or add further beds on the ends of the ones already there.

I have left 50 cms between the beds and I have only made the beds one metre wide, I think people do 1.2 mtrs, but we are not very tall, so I think it would be better for reaching over.

So my questions are:
Does the plan look okay so far?
Where do I put the plants that stay in, Jerusalem artichoke, rhubarb, strawberries?  I thought the north side so they don't cause shade or is that wrong?
Where do I put the compost boxes when they come?
My daughter really wants raspberries, is it too late to plant them? And where should I put them?
Watching Gardeners' World, it appears we are late for a lot of things. So are onions and garlic out?
We would also like to plant a small herb area and are not sure where to put it?

I would be really grateful if you could answer my questions or point me to the correct links on this site to help me.  We would like to get something in the ground before the weeds start growing back where we have prepared.

Regards

[Loubs]

So many questions! Gosh!

It's a full-size plot, and as we're about to enter the growing season if it were mine, I would plan now where I want to put the permanant things (i.e. blueberries, raspberries, rhubarb) and the things that'd be a pain to move later (i.e. compost bin, shed). Other than that, just work my way down the plot digging it over and planting as I went as & when I can, and aim to have a proper plan from next year, as a year should be plenty of time to get the whole plot into good shape. It doesn't look in too bad a shape from the photos.  Personally I wouldn't worry about starting a rotation scheme on such a small proportion.

If you want to be as organic as possible, you might want to look more into whether or not you want the Council to spray - it has it's good & bad points - certainly will kill anything growing, but won't kill any weed seeds.

Gardeners World is an enjoyable programme, but you're best off getting a good reference book to be honest.

[Wombat18]

You probably won't get it all cleared in one year.  I'd just concentrate on getting small areas dug over and planted so at least you've got some produce, then you can start putting raised beds and paths in when everything dies off in the winter.  Spuds are great for breaking up rough ground and you need to get them in this month, so I would clear a bed for those first.

100cm wide beds sound fine.  50cm is a good width for a path.  You'll get a better idea of where to put things as you clear the ground.  Whatever you decide to grow work out your crop rotation and make sure you have five equal sized areas for your different crops.  You will probably want a fixed area for things like asparagus, rhubarb etc, possibly an area for fruit bushes and maybe also a nursery bed to start things off in.

Jerusalem artichokes want to go somewhere where they won't shade anything else, and strawberries will do better in a sunny spot.  You are getting a bit late to plant raspberries as the growing season is just starting, but if you see some at the garden centre or Homebase, get them in somewhere sunny.  You can also still get onions and garlic from garden centres, they're not expensive so buy a few and bung them in.  Garlic is better off planted in winter but give it a go.  Onions should be fine if you get spring planting varieties.

Stick the compost boxes along the edge somewhere wherever the soil is poorest or most shady, you don't want to take up prime growing space.

Find a small patch somewhere away from your crop rotation beds for herbs or put them in the fixed bed.  You probably won't need loads of space.  I have mine around my cold frame at the edge of the plot.  You can grow them in tubs, but then you have to water the tubs which can be a pain.

I think you will be lucky to grow lentils and chickpeas in this country, it really isn't warm enough to give much of a yield.  I'm going to give soya a go this year but I'm not holding out much hope.  Runner beans and peas are probably a better bet when it comes to legumes, but experiment and see what you come up with.

If you are worried about leaving areas bare, put a short term green manure on it.  It will help break up the soil and keep the weeds down.  Make sure if fits in with your crop rotation.

Finally, all the best of luck!  I've had my plot for 18 months now, and I remember how much work it was at the start.

[compostqueen]

I think if you want to grow veg you should be keeping and composting your chicken poo and their bedding. It's too good to give away

You have loads of time to grow veg but it is late for garlic but onions are ok to plant now

I like Joy Larkcom's Grow Your own Vegetables, it's excellent and sets out in easy to understand language how to go about it. You can lend it from the libary

There is also John's book available from this site  

[nappy501]

So many questions! Gosh!

It's a full-size plot, and as we're about to enter the growing season if it were mine, I would plan now where I want to put the permanant things (i.e. blueberries, raspberries, rhubarb) and the things that'd be a pain to move later (i.e. compost bin, shed).

That's what I was thinking, but I really don't have an idea of the best place.  I have had the idea of the north side, because they wouldn't block the sun?

If you want to be as organic as possible, you might want to look more into whether or not you want the Council to spray - it has it's good & bad points - certainly will kill anything growing, but won't kill any weed seeds.

Yes, I had had thoughts about this.  The expense of covering it, maybe beyond me.  Maybe someone will be throwing out some large pieces of carpet.

Gardeners World is an enjoyable programme, but you're best off getting a good reference book to be honest.

Right ho!  I have ordered Bob Flowerdew's Complete Book of Companion Planting from the library.  Thank you.

[nappy501]

You probably won't get it all cleared in one year.  I'd just concentrate on getting small areas dug over and planted so at least you've got some produce, then you can start putting raised beds and paths in when everything dies off in the winter.  Spuds are great for breaking up rough ground and you need to get them in this month, so I would clear a bed for those first.

Potatoes are on my list for the garden centre.
Sadly, I don't think I will get it cleared in 2 years, but the children have taken to digging with a vengeance. (So maybe?).  Would it be so terrible to mark the beds now? At the moment the bit we have dug, we haven't walked on.  I thought when we started planting we would walk where were the paths are going then, we wouldn't have to dig them again?

100cm wide beds sound fine.  50cm is a good width for a path.  You'll get a better idea of where to put things as you clear the ground.  Whatever you decide to grow work out your crop rotation and make sure you have five equal sized areas for your different crops.

Great that the sizes are good.  Okay, I will take that on board about the size of the areas.

 You will probably want a fixed area for things like asparagus, rhubarb etc, possibly an area for fruit bushes and maybe also a nursery bed to start things off in.

I hadn't thought of a nursery bed.  I will factor that in, maybe at the west end in that curved bit.  Still hopeful of a suggestion of where to try the permanent stuff?

Jerusalem artichokes want to go somewhere where they won't shade anything else,

That would be the north side.

and strawberries will do better in a sunny spot.  You are getting a bit late to plant raspberries as the growing season is just starting, but if you see some at the garden centre or Homebase, get them in somewhere sunny.  

I shall look out for the raspberries bushes, this week.  We are further north, so maybe that will give us some extra time.

You can also still get onions and garlic from garden centres, they're not expensive so buy a few and bung them in.  Garlic is better off planted in winter but give it a go.  Onions should be fine if you get spring planting varieties.

Shame about the garlic, I have added onions to the shopping list.

Stick the compost boxes along the edge somewhere wherever the soil is poorest or most shady, you don't want to take up prime growing space.

Good suggestion, I don't know where the soil is poorest yet, but it will be sometime before we get up to the east end and there is a largish bush up there, so I will put them there.
[/quote]
Find a small patch somewhere away from your crop rotation beds for herbs or put them in the fixed bed.  

[/quote]
Does that include the annual herbs?

You probably won't need loads of space.  I have mine around my cold frame at the edge of the plot.  You can grow them in tubs, but then you have to water the tubs which can be a pain.

There is no water on the site, but I have spoken to next door but one and I can use their water, so I don't really want tubs. Unless it's mint, but I have a pot of that by my back door.

I think you will be lucky to grow lentils and chickpeas in this country, it really isn't warm enough to give much of a yield.  I'm going to give soya a go this year but I'm not holding out much hope.

I didn't think I could, but I didn't know.  They are quite cheap to buy dried.

 Runner beans and peas are probably a better bet when it comes to legumes, but experiment and see what you come up with.

Unfortunately, apart from peas these are not well loved in our house.  However, the children do tend to eat vegetables straight from the plant if they are young.  I'm now off to check if it is safe to eat beans raw.

If you are worried about leaving areas bare, put a short term green manure on it.  It will help break up the soil and keep the weeds down.  Make sure if fits in with your crop rotation.

Okay then, I will go off and do some research on green manures.

Finally, all the best of luck!  I've had my plot for 18 months now, and I remember how much work it was at the start.

I possibly didn't want to hear that, but we only have to get a bit done.  We have already gone about 2 mtrs, so it is enough for 1x2 metre bed already.  Thank you.

[nappy501]

I think if you want to grow veg you should be keeping and composting your chicken poo and their bedding. It's too good to give away

Yes, I know.  The person who takes it away already expects that their supply will dry up.  However, I have 3 compost bins full of chicken droppings, bedding and kitchen waste.  Then I have plastic dustbins that the extra chicken waste, bedding goes into, that gets given away.

We will have to slowly transfer what is in the three compost bins to the allotment bins.  I will also have to become a regular compost turner as I am not at present to get it to rot down quicker.  So the problem at present is storage, but as we get going it should resolve itself.

I like Joy Larkcom's Grow Your own Vegetables, it's excellent and sets out in easy to understand language how to go about it. You can lend it from the libary

Thank you for the suggestion, I have now reserved it from the library.

There is also John's book available from this site  

Mmm! You've lost me there. John's book?

Regards

[nappy501]

Thank you very much for your suggestions, it has given me some food for thought and somethings to be going on with.  Still not sure about the permanent bushes, raspberries, but if in doubt I will go for the north side and will have to move things if they are wrong.

Thank you again.

[lucywil]

Mmm! You've lost me there. John's book?

Regards

http://www.allotment-garden.org/book/

[Beetroot queen]

2 years free rent well done its in a better state than one of mine was and I didnt get a discount LOL

Follow this rule if you think its too late try anyway you just never know, its all a case of trial and error what works for someone else may not work for you.

have fun trying

just so you feel better have a look at mine when we started LOL

[nappy501]

http://www.allotment-garden.org/book/

Hi,
Would that be:
Vegetable Growing Month by Month or
The Essential Allotment Guide?

Thank you.

[Elcie]

http://www.allotment-garden.org/book/

Hi,
Would that be:
Vegetable Growing Month by Month or
The Essential Allotment Guide?

Thank you.

In my opinion both are great.  I have purchased them both (in fact all of John/Val's books) and they were and still are useful.  Pretty cheap too!

[madcat]

Either or both!  Actually - if I had to choose, the allotment guide, 'cos the veg book doesnt do fruit.      Duh!

Seriously, we took over one in much that state (six months free, from October to March) and a neighbouring strip which had been rotavated (sp?).  Gulp......  Initially encouraging but oh the couch grass and nettles!  Can I really recommend potatoes?  You are still in time to get main crop in, even if the clearing of the ground is a bit hit and miss.  Then with the earthing up and digging up you get another couple of goes at clearing, but with more of an incentive when things are growing and you can eat them.  And they store, without the freezer.

Our onions only went in at the weekend  - plenty of time.  Check out the poundshop - bags of red baron sets being cleared through with about 125 in a bag.

Pumpkins and squashes and courgettes and marrows are good ground covering, weed suppressing plants that take a lot of land.  You start them off in pots on a window ledge about now and plant out when the frost are over in May.  If you can get it roughly turned over and some planting pockets made for them, they will keep the weeds down.  Pick squashes and pumpkins that will store into the winter too - and if going for butternuts, pick ones developed for the UK.  Some like it warmer than our so called summers.

Oh yes - and prepare for some disappointments    speaking from experience, after all that grass, there will be a lot of slugs and wireworm and cutworm around during your first year.     Love your small birds and protect from ***** pigeons!

[Wombat18]

There's nothing wrong at all with marking your beds out now, but you will probably spend your first year with just a portion of the allotment cleared for planting, and everything crowded in wherever it will go.  From experience, I would say just clear ground and get stuff in, then worry about the beds in the autumn when everything dies back, but I have a friend who did exactly the opposite and put his beds in as he cleared.  It's entirely up to you!  However if you are planning to mark beds out with string, it will probably get lost in the grass as it grows and you will be tripping over and digging up bits of string for years afterwards.

As to where to put the permanent stuff, if you are planning to grow fruit bushes, put them in a block where they can easily be covered by a fruit cage if you decide you need one later.  Otherwise, I can't really advise you.  My fixed bed is just a big block in the middle of my plot, there's no particular best place.  It's slightly larger than my crop rotation beds and I'm using it for strawberries, raspberries, asparagus and rhubarb at the moment.

Annual herbs can just go anywhere where there's space.  They don't take up much room.  Just put them in wherever you have a gap.  As for legumes, if your kids don't like runner beans, just grow loads and loads of peas.  Nothing tastes as good as peas fresh from the pod.  I'm growing at least half peas this year, and none of your mangetout rubbish

[andtiggertoo]

Just to make it clear that you should buy onion sets not seeds. Sets cut out several weeks of germinating & growth.

You sound to be on the right track with a lot of your plans.

I only just planted a few canes of raspberries and tayberries, I bet you could find some still on sale in wilko's. They'll love the old chicken manure. if they are bare rooted just put them in tubs until you're ready to put them in their permanent home.