Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: Dan78 on January 03, 2010, 23:24
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Hi Everyone
I was allocated with an allotment a few weeks before Christmas.. I think it used to be an allotment during the war but my patch is completely grass.. Surrounded by blackberry bushes and small trees! Measured up and its about 13m by 10 so pretty big for me having not done anything like this before! Have grown a few tomatos and strawberries at home etc...
Ive been trying to get some work done these last few weeekends so that i can grow something at least next year but its hard work.. Everyone around my plot had theirs rotivated but after hearing lots of peoples opinions i decided to dig by hand.. Ive now managed to dig out a few metres and marked off a walkway through the middle. Sort of wishing i had rotivated lol.
Im not sure if im going about it the right way though. at the moment im digging up pieces of turf and stacking them (face to face) in a corner i have set aside. Only problem here is that the turf is coming up about 4 inches thick so is hard going! Im then digging the ground over a bit and gonna leave for the frost to kill the weed roots and the fat white catterpillars that seem to be deep in the soil! Then hopefully can dig it over again in the spring and get something planted ?
Should i be stacking the turf like this ? I was hoping to use it as topsoil in the future but no idea how long that will take.. should i cover it with black plastic to heat it up and stop weeds ?
Does it matter that im digging so much of the top layer of soil off ? Im hoping to take out most of the roots..
Any other suggestions or comments greatfully recieved.. my first post on here (sorry its so long!) so saying hello at the same time :)
thanks
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Welcome, Dan...
Stacking grass-lumps face down is fine... you should end up with some good loam to dig back in later.
I would try to "skim" the surface rather than remove quite so much in one go because it is easier to move and leaves a clean surface area (fewer bits of green) to be dug and cleaned. There's a knack to skimming... took me ages despite my dad's advice. Go low to the ground and level with a sharp spade working away from the area you have already cleared. Aim to take around an inch of soil off with the green top attached.
Once the surface of the ground is mainly free from green weed bits you can then go back and dig thoroughly removing weed roots that are likely to re-grow (mainly the white roots - so easy to spot).
Take it easy - section at a time - skim then dig then skim and dig.
Best of luck... it is not an easy task to start with. ;)
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Learner is right; turves rot down to make very good loam, and you should not remove more topsoil than you need to (depends how deep yours is to start off with, of course.)
As to how long it will take to rot, under ideal circumstances (warmth, moisture, air) you could grow something like courgettes or squashes in the heap in 6 months time (i.e this year).
Obviously conditions are not ideal at the moment; decomposition virtually stops when the whole pile is frozen solid. Covering with black plastic would help a little bit, but make sure the pile doesn't dry out when it starts getting warmer.
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But freezing the white bugs is good. Feeding them to the robins is also good. Squishing them is satisfying. The more of them you can get rid of the better - along with the wireworms. They are a menace in the first year after grass ..... bitter experience :mad: :mad: :mad:
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The "fat white caterpillars" sound like chafer grubs, which are prevelant in turf & lawns.
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Hello back..
It was good to hear your story as mine is very similiar only thing being I got my plot this weekend! Mine is xactly as you described and I wasn't sure which way to go digging or rotivator. Why did you choose digging?
:unsure:
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Thanks for all the replies.. definately very helpful :D
Will definately have to try taking less soil up with the turf as like you said its very hard work moving it about after! Will get the turf pile covered in black plastic when ive dug a bit more out.. Hard going in this weather but luckily the plot is near enough in the sun the whole day so heats the ground a little..
Pretty pleased to say my back does not hurt this week after digging yesterday.. The first day i was digging i was really sore for days after!! :closedeyes: Was pretty pleased to see a fox watching me too! Although now pleased i opted against chickens!!
inosnofing my other half works as a care worker so has been talking about it to a lot of the old boys.. Lots of horror stories about weeds after rotivating etc.. One quote ill always remember was 'five years later im still regretting rotivating'
2 ways to look at it I guess though,. have the hard jobnow digging or the hard job weeding later on.. Im still not sure i made the right decision but when looking at the rotivated plots on our site it appears its only cut up an inch or so!
Thanks again for the warm welcome and advice.. I will try not to ask many stupid questions but will be asking for lots of advice im sure :)
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The vast majority of people here who have had overgrown plots rotavated have regretted the extra work it caused them when all the chopped up weed roots grew into individual plants :(
So well done for persevering and taking your time.
And ask away - there are no stupid questions here (only daft answers :lol: ). The search facility and Growing Help link at the top of the screen are also very useful resources
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Hi Dan
Good to meet you. It sounds like you have made a very positive start with your plot, and digging little and often (assuming it's not frozen solid or really claggy ;) ) you will soon have it under control, and not injure yourself either :lol:
and i'm glad for you that you haven't had your plot rotavated ;)
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haha thankyou both :) Really nice place here i can tell already :D
Pleased i decided to dig it over but seeing the other plots all sorted in a day had me a bit disheartened!! Like you say though... Little and often!! If i can grow on a quarter of my plot at least this year I will be happy :)
Sunshine I see you are in Reading ? Thats where I am!!! Im in Woodley so having the same conditions as you at the moment!! Where is your plot ?
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Hi Dan
Welcome.
A really knowledgeable old guy told me once that if you clear turf and then want to grow spuds there you should dig in granulated sugar to repel the wire worm.
I've never tried it personally and he didn't give any quantities per square foot etc but if I cleared an area of grass I'd definately give it a go. He really knows his stuff and I tend to go with his other advice with good results.
Enjoy.
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P.S. Forgot to say. I've never rotavated the plot either, just progressively put two thirds of it to raised beds with good results. Couldn't bear to chop up all the poor worms! I'm a total wuss.
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ah ok thanks.. i wasnt sure the white worms were an issue! I actually thought they were just massive caterpillars.. although they are much bigger than usual and down pretty deep!
I know what you mean about the worms though.. Im am seeing LOADS of big fat juicy ones while digging so pretty pleased about that! Everyone I see is getting put straight back in!
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Lucky you. When I took my plot over there wasn't a worm to be seen in a week of digging and planting.
A year of TLC, lots of cardboard covering the beds over winter and some manure has caused a worm population explosion. Bless them. Good to see them back.
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Well done, we dug by hand and during the long road to the end, fellow plot holders had their plots done, One fellow plot holder had to have his done 3 times, and its greener now than when he started. He hasnt managed to plant much either.
Too many weeds.
I shouldnt laugh but I will :lol: just like they did when we said we were taking the long road. The only ones who nodded in agreement with us were the old boys who have had a plot since they were old enoough to dig it.
The moral of the story...... well i think you can guess that.
Ps we also won the cup for 2009 as the best newcomer, not laughing really :blush: ;)
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haha thankyou both :) Really nice place here i can tell already :D
Pleased i decided to dig it over but seeing the other plots all sorted in a day had me a bit disheartened!! Like you say though... Little and often!! If i can grow on a quarter of my plot at least this year I will be happy :)
Sunshine I see you are in Reading ? Thats where I am!!! Im in Woodley so having the same conditions as you at the moment!! Where is your plot ?
Hello Dan,
I am a newbie to this allotment lark too, and got my allotment in Woodley just before Christmas..... I take it yours is one of the new ones that have just been issued on the Reading Road site.....?? We might be 'plot' neighbours !! I too resisted the temptation to have the whole plot rotivated (unlike my immediate neighbour who's never been seen) and I am half way through double digging my second bed..... Can't say that I've spotted any large white grubs yet though !!
All the best,
IanM
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Can't say that I've spotted any large white grubs yet though !!
All the best,
IanM
That's cos they're all on Dan's plot, of course ;) :tongue2: 8)
Welcome to the site btw IanM :D
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haha thankyou both :) Really nice place here i can tell already :D
Sunshine I see you are in Reading ? Thats where I am!!! Im in Woodley so having the same conditions as you at the moment!! Where is your plot ?
I have a plot at school where I work.. off the Bath Road on the way to Sava/Junction 12.
Good to have some more from round here on the forum. There must be at least five or six of us now :D
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Hi Ian,
Yes!! I also have one of the new plots on the Reading road allotment as well! Small world! I must admit I was pretty surprised how quickly i got the plot.. Although looking on google earth there is A LOT of space for growing ;)
Not sure you are my neighbour though as im on the end and my immediate neighbour has only dug a couple of small holes... i presume for soil testing! The plot next to that only has a small dug up patch that actually looks like a grave!! All the others are rotivated near to mine!
Ive got no access to water as of yet so may need a water butt. I think they plan to cut some more brambles down though so may be easier next year!
Hopefully might see you sometime!
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Hi Dan,
What row are you in? We're in row M, on the far side of the main 'road' that runs down to the bottom of the allotments. I think I have spotted the plot doing the 'soil testing', two small squares stripped of turf to about 2 inches deep....?? Strange....
Cheers,
IanM
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Can't say that I've spotted any large white grubs yet though !!
All the best,
IanM
That's cos they're all on Dan's plot, of course ;) :tongue2: 8)
Welcome to the site btw IanM :D
Hello Yorkie,
Many thanks for the welcome !!
IanM
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haha yes that sounds about right! Im in row L.. all the way down at the end!
Ive not actually had a walk about to look around yet.. Think i will plan that for my next trip down there!
Think you must be pretty close to me!
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Hi Dan,
No doubt we'll be down there at the weekend doing some more digging...... Come and say hello if you're around, we can found on M33....
IanM
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Wow... what a huge crowd of neighbours / friends you've made Dan!! More than I have managed in several years of being on my plot...but I tend to do most of my "chatting on the plot" here... never have time once I have a spade or fork in my hand!
Looks as if your plot is going to be a social meeting point.... make sure the neighbours lend a hand while they are nattering to you.. ;) or come along with a couple of tea-bags!
Once you have eventually dug and cleared the plot don't be worried about making use of a rotovator.... they do have some uses when the weeds are under control... great for quickly preparing a seed bed if your soil isn't the sort that turns to dust and then settles into a solid compact layer.
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Hello,
I would advocate patience. Oct/Nov/Dec have been unusually wet. Dec/Jan has so far been unusually cold.
Removing 4 inches of topsoil sounds an awful lot... but then how far down do you go before you reach the subsoil?? It's just a spades depth for me. You know you've hit it and turned it over, as it's distinctly orangey in colour. Subsoil has little in the way of nutrients, so not something you want to grow your veggies in.
If you wait a while till conditions are a little drier, you might find you make shake more of the top soil off your turfs before you pile to one side for a season or more to rot down??
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Just thought I'd add my bit, not really advice but maybe reassuring?
I got my allotment in May last year and managed to get crops that year! Mine wasn't grassed but deep in weeds, rubbish and generally neglected (look at my blog). We worked like hell!! but really enjoyed it. We now have a greenhouse, a bee hive and a shed/summerhouse and have definitely 'broke the back'. We're really looking forward to having a whole year now, with less work but more produce!
Good luck with it, keep with it and remember everything you do, even if it's 10 mins a day, moves it along to that perfect allotment so no effort is wasted. What you put in, you get out!
We need pics to watch it develop along with you ;)
Mick and Claire
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OK.. Thanks for all the info.. looks like it is hard digging for me then!!
Thank you for all the advice.