[earthtiller]

Hi,
I am an allotment novice just working a plot for the first year.  The council rotavated the plot for free before handing it over.  I am working my way through the plot forking it over and removing what I can and sowing / planting.  Potatoes, onions, broad beans, strawberries and raspberries are in.  Previously the cite was grass periodically mown.  I have just discovered that removing all that I can see is not effective as a month later the couch grass is back in no uncertain terms.  Is this problem caused by the rotavation? Any ideas as to the best practice to irradicate the couch grass will be gratefully received.  Are there particular crops that can compete with or smother the grass reasonably well?  Are there crops that I should not be attempting as the ground is stony and dry?
Reagards,
Earthtiller :?

[noshed]

People swear by covering unused land to exclude the light - black plastic etc. But a good dose of herbicide might be a good idea too, if you're prepared to compromise a bit.
But I've found that a really thick layer of compost on the beds works well - although my weeds might have been a bit more namby-pamby than yours. About a spade's depth just chucked on top seems to have been pretty effective, so I've just planted spuds in there.
Once you beat them back to a certain level, hoeing seems to be enough.
All the best

[John]

Noshed's right - exclude light and it will die or consider a herbicide.

You could use glyphosate but I've heard some bad things about it - a safe although not organic herbicide is amicide. It really works and kills marestail but you can't plant for around 6 weeks after. It is 'crooked' sulphate of ammonia and after 6 weeks it has all changed to uncrooked nitrogen fertiliser.
It's also pretty expensive.

Sorry, no magic answers.

Rotovating a weedy plot is rarely a good idea - it just sends up hundreds of root cuttings of perrenial weeds, which multiplies your problem. Hindsight is wonderful!

[Jake]

Rotovating a weedy plot is rarely a good idea - it just sends up hundreds of root cuttings of perrenial weeds, which multiplies your problem. Hindsight is wonderful!

Wish I hadn't just read that, its exactly what we did in August last year. We have dug out lots of the weeds and grass now, I expect to have some further problems then. :x

[John]

One plot that was rotovated had quite a few docks on it. Next spring it was a mass of dock leave.

Whenever you turn the soil over you will bring annual weed seeds to the surface - these are fairly easy, just keep hoeing. It's perrenials (dock, couch, dandelion etc) that are the worst.

[Jake]

I think we'll have a problem with couch then, not so much docs or dandelions, a few but not so bad. Digging up couch did me a lot of good though, its good to get the blood flowing. Gotta look on the bright side

[Phoenix]

Ive heard that fresh salt water from the sea will kill couch grass.. dont know how true it is cos ive never tested it, will have to find sum1 in my area with it and test it out

[John]

NO NO NO NO
Salt water may well kill your couch but it will kill everything.. In olden days they burnt the houses and salted the ground to stop anything from growing.

[Phoenix]

o ok then lol i dont know anything about weeds really, just if i see 1 i pull it up lol we have japenese knotweed here its murder!! ive painted the leaves sprayed it everything, the only way i keep it under control is to keep snapping it at the base and dig it up now and again... keeps my incinerater going nice tho lol

u might aswell delete my last post john

[John]

You never know - it might help someone else who is thinking of salt.

Have you tried amicide on knotweed? You can get small packets of brushwood killer that contain ammonium sulphamate in B&Q etc to try. The plant thinks it is nitrogen, sucks it up into the roots and dies.

I eliminated horsetail with it - but it is expensive.

[Phoenix]

Will go down l8r and get some, try anything to kill that creep lol

[MUDDISPUD]

HI I'VE JUST JOINED. GLAD TO SEE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM.I'VE HAD MY PLOT FOR FOUR YEARS NOW AND ALTHOUGH I'VE MANAGED TO GET ON TOP OF MOST OF THE WEEDS I'M STILL HAVING TERRIBLE PROBLEMS WITH GRASS.LAST YEAR I ONLY MANAGED TO PLANT HALF OF THE PLOT COZ I COULDN'T GET IT ALL CLEARED IN TIME.THIS YEAR IT'S MUCH WORSE.I RECON I'LL ONLY BE ABLE TO USE ABOUT A QUARTER OF IT.I HAVE DUG IT OVER TWICE THIS WINTER AND PULLED OUT ALL THE ROOTS I COULD SEE  BY HAND.I  LOOK AROUND AT OTHER PEOPLES NICELY CULTIVATED BROWN SOIL AND WONDER WHERE I'M GOING WRONG.

[John]

There does come a point where I think you can justify a quick spray with something like glyphosate. If you can't use most of your plot maybe you can get a dispensation from the Organic Church - LOL

I don't approve of using chemicals willy nilly, but sometimes it is the only reasonable course. Unless you feel strongly about it.

[noshed]

Probably better than a goat anyway...

[Jake]

HI I'VE JUST JOINED. GLAD TO SEE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS PROBLEM.I'VE HAD MY PLOT FOR FOUR YEARS NOW AND ALTHOUGH I'VE MANAGED TO GET ON TOP OF MOST OF THE WEEDS I'M STILL HAVING TERRIBLE PROBLEMS WITH GRASS.LAST YEAR I ONLY MANAGED TO PLANT HALF OF THE PLOT COZ I COULDN'T GET IT ALL CLEARED IN TIME.THIS YEAR IT'S MUCH WORSE.I RECON I'LL ONLY BE ABLE TO USE ABOUT A QUARTER OF IT.I HAVE DUG IT OVER TWICE THIS WINTER AND PULLED OUT ALL THE ROOTS I COULD SEE  BY HAND.I  LOOK AROUND AT OTHER PEOPLES NICELY CULTIVATED BROWN SOIL AND WONDER WHERE I'M GOING WRONG.

Sorry about your worries there MUDDISPUD, Could you tell us a little more? Like did you rotavate all the weeds in when you first got the plot? If ours turns into a nightmare I will use something nasty as a one off, hopefully.