Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Chatting => Design and Construction => Topic started by: Shieldsy on February 29, 2012, 08:15
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Hi all,
I am getting a delivery of scaffold planks today, the majority being 13ft long, so I can push ahead and start the raised beds which I can't wait to get stuck into but has anyone got any 'best practices' to follow on construction? IE What screws are best, what size corner posts (And any good suppliers?), what is the optimum size for a raised bed (Is 7.5ft by 4ft too big?), as well as screws should/do I need corner braces etc
Any help and knowledge appreciated before I do what I normally do and get cracking and then end up with a creation only I could love :-)
Many thanks,
Al
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I don't know about others, but I gave the wood for my raised beds a good couple of coats of the green cuprinol after they were cut to size. I used ordinary 4" nails ('cos I had loads) and 2" square corner posts.
I did pre-drill the holes before I hammered the nails in, just to prevent splitting.
7 by 4 seems to be a reasonable size for a bed as you can easily reach in from both sides.
Don't forget to leave a good sized path between the beds so you can get a barrow down them.
Raised beds take a surprising amount of soil to fill up. We filled ours half way knowing that we would be topping them up each year with manure and so on.
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I would say length of bed is not as important as width. You need to be able to reach the middle of the bed from either side. Mine are 5ft because I'm a jolly green giant.
I dont treat my boards. They are pretty well weathered and spend endless weeks sat in piles in the rain at the scaffold yard. One of my neighbours doesn't treat and has 5yr beds with no serious rot.
I use decking screw for everything. They don't bend, are treated and come out easily after years.
On paths I have my own ideas. The norm is paths you can get a wheelbarrow down. My thinking is that there is not much that I cant carry the length of my bed from a wheelbarrow on the central path. My lovely neat neighbours have big paths all around their beds. I measured and they have about 20% MORE path than bed which I consider a waste of precious ground. I say have a big central path and smaller footpaths between beds.
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On paths I have my own ideas. The norm is paths you can get a wheelbarrow down. My thinking is that there is not much that I cant carry the length of my bed from a wheelbarrow on the central path. My lovely neat neighbours have big paths all around their beds. I measured and they have about 20% MORE path than bed which I consider a waste of precious ground. I say have a big central path and smaller footpaths between beds.
That's been our approach too.
We've also gone for 13ft long beds, to reduce the amount of sawing needed (so we only need to saw shorter pieces for the ends). Whether that would work for you will depend on your plot size; ours is ~30ft wide, so we have a path up the middle with one long bed on either side.
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Plot size wise I am fine but was worried that if I left them at 13ft they may bow in the middle unless pegged at regular intervals?
What size corner stakes/wooden poles have people used or on a 7.5ft bed is centre staking and corner posts not needed?
Thanks for your replies thus far......
Al
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I'd personally (and have) gone for shorter beds because I'm Idle. The thing you want is always on the other side of the bed. Shorter beds mean I don't have to walk so far.
I understand fully the desire not to waste space on paths, but I've found that I usually end up with a bit of spare ground anyway so, for me, it hasn't become a problem so far.
Each to his own........ :)
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I stayed with 4' x 8' beds because that's the most economical and common size of lumber, and the width is easy for me to reach. Length is fine too, though I have made a few 4' x 4' beds when I got hold of some free pieces that length and those are a good size as well, particularly for small quantity crops that I grow. I got hold of some 4'x12' lumber but I'll cut those down to either a 4 and 8 or two 6's. 12' is just too long to walk around.
I went the longer route of oil paint priming then oil painting my beds, mostly for looks (corner lot) and durability. I also used outdoor deck screws, - 2-1/2" ones that I bought cheaper by the pound than the packet and predrilled the holes. I'd used nails in the past but they tended to pop out over the years. Nothing budges screws and I hate repeating any work (call me lazy).
I spaced my beds just wide enough for the lawn tractor to pass through. The bed bases have a strip of membrane around all edges then some pea gravel on top and against the boards to stop weeds against the edges (and no strimming!)
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Plot size wise I am fine but was worried that if I left them at 13ft they may bow in the middle unless pegged at regular intervals?
What size corner stakes/wooden poles have people used or on a 7.5ft bed is centre staking and corner posts not needed?
My sight is on a hill with the slope running corner to corner :PI across my plot so my paths are actually trenches on one side to level it out.
I use about 2ft of wood with an angled point cut to it for driving into the ground and I use 3 per 13ft side. I then use chalk from the graves (Tea for the diggers/grounds staff get me favours :D) to put a 2-3 inch layer in the path/trench for drainage.
I know some drive a hole with a metal bar and then push the stake in but by driving in the stake and then attaching the board I get a sturdy bed.
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These are my raised beds. Gone from 4 to 8 this year, about a quarter of the plot.
I used scaffold boards to make 8x4 (£2.50 for 8ft board) beds. I basically use inexpensive fence stain for the outside of the baords - I don't touch the inside. When they're not in use I bring the soil to the centre to stop the dampness rotting them. I use good, thin, 5" screws, but use a pilot hole or you'll struggle.
This year I've made four cages from reclaimed 2x2 from the school next door that was being pulled down. I've hinged them on one side and have yet to fit Veggiemesh and butterfly nettings. Oh and I've also got to attach a support for the hoops.
The path was done by laying a weed membrane and then covering with tree bark that the council had kindly dumped at the plot.
Definately agree with the above that they take a LOT more soil than you think. The pictures only show them half full. I used a blend of top soil from an unused part of the plot, home made compost and a lot of bought in compost. Did the treat last year.
Well I hope it gave you an idea or two anyway :)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423019_10150568075874541_855876395_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407283_10150573667619541_738909540_8902857_914942661_n.jpg)
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My 13ft 2 plank high raised beds in the polytunnel did bend and needed more than just corner posts - I ended up putting 2 extra posts in 1/3 and 2/3 way down - now they are fine. I used decking screws mostly, but where I used nails the planks have separated a bit from the posts - so will use decking screws from now on.
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Your plot looks good Wavertree :D
I like your lids which will have the mesh attached over the blue hoops. Moving them from year to year would not be too difficult.
What have you got inside the hoops to support them?
One day when Mr Sunny has built the supports for the loganberries nd blackberries, replaced a tree which turned out to be a dud with the one in a pot in the garden, built that pergola at the end of the plot, planted out the hazels and cotoneaster on the back verge and (prioroty) helped me move the bean frame, I shall mention this to him.
It's on the list now!!!
(Oh, and created a small flower bed down one edge of the plot)
Thanks for the idea - rather good imho :D :D :D
PS Our beds are 1.2m by 2.4 m. Guess how long the planks were? :lol:
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Hi,
I have just embarked on the same project. I have used reclaimed timbers from a roof so as they were previously untreated wanted to ensure I got a good few years ou of them.
I used a culprinol wood preserver which is water based. You need two coats and when dry water literally rolls off. I have however had to line the inside of the bed with polythene as I don’t want the preserver to contaminate the soil.
I used decking corner brackets to hold them together and so far so good I am very pleased with the result. If I get time I will try and post a picture of my first one.
I do have a question for everyone........I have a lot more beds still to do but am fast running out of soil any suggestions where I might be able to pick some up for free? I live in the Bristol area and I don't really want to have to buy in expensive soil!!
Many thanks
Andy
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Your plot looks good Wavertree :D
I like your lids which will have the mesh attached over the blue hoops. Moving them from year to year would not be too difficult.
What have you got inside the hoops to support them?
One day when Mr Sunny has built the supports for the loganberries nd blackberries, replaced a tree which turned out to be a dud with the one in a pot in the garden, built that pergola at the end of the plot, planted out the hazels and cotoneaster on the back verge and (prioroty) helped me move the bean frame, I shall mention this to him.
It's on the list now!!!
(Oh, and created a small flower bed down one edge of the plot)
Thanks for the idea - rather good imho :D :D :D
PS Our beds are 1.2m by 2.4 m. Guess how long the planks were? :lol:
Cheers. I dont want to cut another piece of timber ever again. I feel broken :).
The design is basically a 'Geoff Hamilton' cloche, see here http://igrowveg.com/2009/05/how-to-build-your-own-geoff-hamilton-cloche/ (http://igrowveg.com/2009/05/how-to-build-your-own-geoff-hamilton-cloche/). The baton on the top gives the cages their rigidity. I attached them today.
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Thanks for all your replies thus far.
The boards have now arrived but as I am away this weekend the project KO is going to have to wait until next weekend. Itchy feet isn't the word!!
Sounds like decking screws are the way to go with a support approx 3ft along a length of board. Supportinf stakes also in each corner.
Will be making each one two planks high and do have some used compost, new compost etc but will obviously need a load more as will be maing approx 6-8 beds so does anyone know any good soil/compost companies with reasonable costs.
Thanks again everyone
Al
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Our raised beds were fairly flat inside until recently (two years later)
Some of them, due to the volume of stones removed, were probably best described as sunken.
Now though, thanks to masses of home made compost, spent growbags from home etc they are filling up nicely :D
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Just a thought Shieldsy but if your beds are resting or just a few inches into the ground theres no need for corner posts and a post 3ft in.
As long as the planks meet at the corners the posts 3ft in will easily support the plank 3ft with side of it (including end sections). Just screw the sides to the ends or vice versa. Like this the corners will still be the strongest part of the bed.
Saves of wood and effort
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I didn't do corner posts either on my 2 x 6's, but I did small interior ones for 2nd levels that I can move about, otherwise the dratted things fall off with a small touch >:(
I did make compost bins the exact same way, dividing an 8 ft length into 3 even pieces. The interior corner pieces lock the stack in place and I can adjust the height as needed, or remove to turn the compost. The bottom levels have no corner pieces, just lots of weight from above. If you're worried about rodents burrowing into the beds, set down a layer of wire mesh, like weldmesh, that they can't chew through but worms can access.
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Thanks again all,
Am hoping for a dry Sunday so I can crack on and get as much done as possible :)
Cheers,
Al
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What a brilliant idea with the blue hoops and frames Wavertree. Wow. this one is going onto the favourites to be shown to OH. He of the DIY abilities.
I am the seed, weed, plant and cook abilties.
OH has made brilliant raised beds which we can add more sides to make them higher in future years, as we add more compost, and have been talking about a way to attach mesh to keep insects out but easy access for us. Yours look splendid. 8) 8)
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What a brilliant idea with the blue hoops and frames Wavertree. Wow. this one is going onto the favourites to be shown to OH. He of the DIY abilities.
I am the seed, weed, plant and cook abilties.
OH has made brilliant raised beds which we can add more sides to make them higher in future years, as we add more compost, and have been talking about a way to attach mesh to keep insects out but easy access for us. Yours look splendid. 8) 8)
Thanks Mrs Ball.
Yeah I too wanted them to be easy access. As they are 8 feet long it would have been awkward to manoeuvre them single handed hence hinging them seemed logical. They stay open with the help of a small chain - just visible on the pics. As I've got the day off work today I went up there armed with the Veggie mesh. Laid them out, staple gun at the ready then noticed they looked a bit short. Measured them and realised the supplier had cut both pieces to 320cm instead of 400cm. Fuming isn't the word. A few expletives later I phoned the supplier and they're sending the correct size out today.
After attaching them I'm going to put batons around the point where I've stapled to protect the mesh. Also going to leave a few inches over hang around each edge. Theres a lot of timber involved and if I hadn't gotten it for free I don't think I could justify it but I've enjoyed making them - even if I do owe a mate a new cordless drill, whoops.
I'll put a picture or two up when they're done.
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Thanks again all,
Am hoping for a dry Sunday so I can crack on and get as much done as possible :)
Cheers,
Al
Excellent. Post a pic of your efforts if possible. Oh and if it's the thick scaffold boards take a decent rip saw as they're tough going.
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Managed to finish two of the cages. How did you get on Shieldsy?
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/420261_10150612489349541_738909540_9037490_739437906_n.jpg)
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Don't forget you can add building, grit or sharp sand to your beds to save on soil and compost. Manures can go in, spent hops, homemade compost, kitchen compost etc, leafmould. I made mine 12' long as if you make them too long you'll end up taking a short cut across the bed :)
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Hi all,
Well I managed to get 4 built and 3 partially built before a cold beer came calling :-)
I am hoping to get more done this weekend but the forecast isn't great so we'll have to wait and see.
Have done a fair bit of seraching for somone who does topsoil/compost and found http://www.grabloader.co.uk/ (Anyone used these before?) who deliver 18 tonnes of topsoil for around £200 or for a compost/topsoil mix its around £350........now 18 tonnes is more than my drive will take or I think I'll need so am now trying to see if they'll do smaller deliveries.
Once I have finished, which may be a couple of weeks off yet, I will post some pics.
Cheers all,
Al
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Wavertree, is that fine netting on that hoops, or poly sheeting?
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Is that an allotment or do you have a big garden?
If it is your allotment, i am really jealous. Ours is a right tip, on a hill with very few paths except the ones we have made ourself and several of the plots are not worked so we fight with the brambles, grass and weeds from the other plots. No one from the council seems to bother with maintaining it.
Yours look just brill 8)
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Wavertree, is that fine netting on that hoops, or poly sheeting?
It's Veggiemesh Trillium. Found it a lot cheaper than Enviromesh for the size I wanted and its the same stuff. I will beat the carrot fly :).
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Is that an allotment or do you have a big garden?
If it is your allotment, i am really jealous. Ours is a right tip, on a hill with very few paths except the ones we have made ourself and several of the plots are not worked so we fight with the brambles, grass and weeds from the other plots. No one from the council seems to bother with maintaining it.
Yours look just brill 8)
It's my plot. Wasnt always like it is now, taken three years :). The area not shown behind the raised beds isn't so well looked after as there's massive leilandii trees from the adjoining gardens blocking the sun, basically the DIY and compost area. Growing area is 40' x 30' - big enough for now. I don't have a garden hence the enthusiasm in maintaining it. The plots back on to gardens and a lot of the holders have managed to get the plot that directly backs on to their own garden so most are well maintained. Our association have a lot of power tools including mowers and rotavators which help. Our council do zilch except come around with a clipboard one a year hoping theyve turned in to a jungle so they can sell them off!
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You have done really well :D I look forward to the day ours looks like that.
We aren't doing too badly consideringhow long we have had ours and it was head high in brambles and thick sticky clay.
We also have a garden to take care of and develop as well, so we have to split the time.
Back garden isn't as pretty as it should be since we concentrated on growing the veggies.
I was taken to task about it recently by my son :blush: So will have to pull my socks up.
SOOOOOO impressed by yours tho' :) We could do with a few more people like you on our allotment.