[jamima]

Well im sure someone will have the answer as i obviosly dont !

[nicky d]

Well im sure someone will have the answer as i obviosly dont !

 

compost queen,  how much tuna and how regualry do you feed it to your girl, think its about the only thing i havnt tried.   nickyx

[hillfooter]

Grit doesn't make hard shells.  Chickens store grit in their gizzards to help grind up food.

Calcium (from various sources) is required for hard shells.  However you also need vitamin D to help absorb calcium from the intestine.

If you having problems with soft shells after supplementing calcium you could try also supplementing vitamin D also.

I'd agree with increasing vitamin D as well as making oyster shell available.  If you've been feeding limestone flour and it hasn't worked don't persist with this for more than 8 days as excess calcium can cause problems too and if there's been no response clearly calcium isn't the issue.  They should regulate the production of the enzymes which allow calcium absorbtion if too much is present in their kidneys.  If this regulating function is faulty excess calcium in the kidneys can cause kidney stones.  Using a multivit may well help and I'd try that.  Recently (a month or two back) I had a very bad problem too with poor eggshell quality, rough gritty shells as well as thin shells and soft shell with one of my houses only.  Such problems can be down to infections or ovary damage as a result of earlier infections.  Infectious Bronchitis is well known to cause such problems in older birds.  You don't say whether these birds are exbatts and how old they are but if so and they are 2 years or older then it could be a chronic situation.  The vaccinations they received may cause these problems as they get older.  I don't have personal experience of exbatts but I can tell you what I did.  Firstly I don't feed any special supplements and keep nutrition very simple just layers pellets and a handfull of corn in an evening with only the ocassional household scraps as treats.  First increase hydration for 7 days by using an electrolyte in their drinking water.  Then add a multivit to their water for 1 week.  My hen's shell quality did improve significantly but I'd be cautious about claiming the treatment did the the trick because it might have improved without any treatment and simply may have been the weather or a mild infection which has cleared up without other symptoms.

The formula I use for the electrolyte is based on one recommended by Gail Damerow the US chicken health guru.

Dissolve in 3 litres of water

5 ml of Salt substitute, (1 teaspoon of potassium chlorite)
7.5 ml (1 and a half teaspoons) of Bicarbarbonate of soda (baking soda)
15 ml (3 teaspoons) salt

Use this for 7 days max as it's high in salt and that's not good long term.

Attached is a photo of the multivit I use which is available in a sachet is very low cost and also from many animal feed/ farm shops and online, you need to google.

Since this issue, about 4 weeks later, the same house has had a couple of cases of untypical (no cold sympthoms but gaping, not worms) respiratory problems which I treated with Baytril which very quickly was effective after about 3 days so this (whatever caused it) might have caused my egg shell problem.  The Baytril also seems to have improved shell quality too.  I'd say they are virually normal now.

I'll have a look at the supplement you have on order and let you know what I think.

HF

[Flowerpower136]

Thank you HF.  Truth through science indeed.

I do keep a fairly strict feed routine.  Good quality layers, with a small scoop of afternoon corn, and greens - recently increased greens as don't think they've been getting enough.  Always have access to fine oyster shell and grit, and the occasional slurp of cod liver oil.

They are ex batts which I've had now for almost a year, so problems are to be expected I know.  But anxious to do anything and everything possible to ease things for them.  I'm going to try the 'booster' for a week, and see what happens.  Will print off your hydration and multi vit suggestion as Plan B.  Though multi vits might be worthwhile anyway.

Apart from soft shells they are in good health and good condition apart from 2 who are getting over a moult.

I'd be very interested to have your opinion on the booster.  Am always sceptical.

[hillfooter]

I've just ordered this product from solway feeders.  It's been recommended to me to help with our continuing soft shell problems.

www.solwayfeeders.com/ProductsDetail1.asp?stock_code=3348

Has anyone used it?

Would appreciate an analytical response from HF if he's around. ?

Hi Flowerpower,

I've looked at this potion and I'd not very optimistic the details are very scanty and the only ingredients it lists are calcium and sodium bicarbonate.  Usually by statute manufacturers have to state on the bottle the active ingredients in their proportion order so this looks like an expensive mix of the minerals you've already tried.  The calcium we know is needed for the shell and the sodium bicarb will be to simulate hydration so this probably will do less well than the treatment I have suggested ie oyster shell, an electrolyte and a multivit which will cost a lot less.

By all means try it and travel in hope.  Keep us posted on your results.

I note someone had suggested a caged bird calcium vitamin magnesium potion which I'd say was more promising but basically again similar to my suggestion.
HF

[Flowerpower136]

Thanks HF.  I had my doubts, but it's on it's way now, so we'll give it a go.
 
Will keep your 'receipe' on the notice board so I've got it to hand if things don't improve.

Thanks everyone!

I'll be back in a week to report . . . .

[hillfooter]

By the way I'd leave out the oil.  Can't see that this helps and fat hens are not healthy.

HF

[Flowerpower136]

I thought it was good for calcium absorption?  Is it not??  I've started taking it myself actually, but for creaky joints rather than soft shells

To be honest, with ex batts, even though they've now got a bit of flesh on them, I can't imagine them ever being 'fat'.  They were skin and bone when I got them, now just neat and trim.   But fair point, well said.

[raeburg]

Cod liver oil is a source of vitamin D and aids calcium absorption.

[compostqueen]

I gave mine a piece of granary between them today with a drop of oil apiece on it

I only her gave her some tuna (springwater) for a couple of days just to see if she laid a proper egg and she did and has for a few days now. Whether it will last remains to be seen but she seems fine otherwise

[hillfooter]

Cod liver oil is a source of vitamin D and aids calcium absorption.

Yes you're right it is, so in theory it should help calcium absorption.
HF

[Flowerpower136]

Thanks HF.  I had my doubts, but it's on it's way now, so we'll give it a go.
 
Will keep your 'receipe' on the notice board so I've got it to hand if things don't improve.

Thanks everyone!

I'll be back in a week to report . . . .

I'm back as promised!  Girls have been having the 'booster' in their water for a little more than a week.  Against all odds, there is an improvement.  We've gone from 1 or 2 soft shells every single day, to 1 soft shell about every 3rd day.  So definately a move in the right direction.

We've stopped treatment now, as I don't think it's supposed to be a permanent tonic.  Not really sure as instructions just say give for a least 7 days.  We'll see how they get on, and will repeat if necessary.

[hillfooter]

Good news then. 

As I said similar to what I was suggesting but without the multivits, or at least they weren't listed.  Basically Calcium + Bicarb of soda to help with the hydration.  Good that it's, if anything, helping in the right direction.  You always must bare in mind that you can never be sure it wouldn't have happened without the medication due to the weather for example.
Let's hope it continues.
HF

[Flowerpower136]

And they have been having a lot more greens, so undoubtedly that will have helped matters. 

Am thinking of the multivits you mentioned as well. 

[hanna]

hel help help... i'm really worried... ihave 3 ex batt hens have had them 2 months... they are wonderful and we have been having 3 eggs daily sometimes 2.. yesterday there was one soft rubbery shell... today an egg has been laid with no shell and i think some blood as the paper under the straw seems a bit red. The hens are eating well and running around feeding from my hand etc.. they have grit, pellets and lots of lovely scraps and half an hour a day in the garden out of thier large run.. is my hen ill??... i've read all the useful info omn here but i'm still worried
 
... later there was one perfet egg and one egg with a slightly thinner shell... are they not eating the grit??.. they tip it over but i put new bowls every day are they having too many lovely other foods and leaving the pellets so not getting the right sort of food... they have bread pasta greens fruit tinned corn.. all sorts which they devour!   they love all thier food but leave the pellets till last...