[Brad26]

Hello, been keeping chickens for eggs for about a year now and even hatched 4 under a broody in early June but would now like to hatch some especially for the table. I'd like to do it with an incubator this time and have all the gear but no idea. 

 I've been reading in the practical poultry and country smallholding mags which have both had articles on the subject. In the mags it pretty much said that any bird older that 6 months would be tough as old boots so what i'd like to know from the more experianced ones out there is what are the best hatching eggs to get? I was originally thinking about Ixworths but on contacting a breeder he said i'd be better off going for a sussex indian cross.

He also added that the 6 month thing was silly and that i'd only need to hang an older bird for about 4 days and it would be fine which was annoying as i'd just given away 2 barnevelder cockerals to a friend of a friend as they were 2 of the 4 eggs i'd hatched in early June. 

Sorry this has gone on for so long but i'd just like to hear others opinions on the subject.

Brad

[Casey76]

Older birds tend to need cooking differently than "broilers"

If you have a slow cooker, you can produce a very tasty and tender "roast" chicken by cooking it for several hours (if you sprinkle the skin with paprika it even looks roast).

Otherwise, you can joint the birds and use in slow cooked stews and curries.

If you wanted a fast food/meat conversion, then you should look at commercial hybrids.  These are usually acquired at a day old (Ross Cobbs or Hubbard, now also Sasso are also making inroads into the UK).  A medium growth bird would produce a decent (2-3kg dressed) carcass at 12 weeks, and the problems with "flipping" (heart attacks) and deformed legs are dramatically reduced.

If you wanted a slower growing bird, Sussex and Ixworth are good British breeds; Faverolles, Marans, La Bresse Gauloise are traditional French breeds.

For "home made" crosses, apparantly Sussex cockerel on Indian Game/Cornish hens produces a good meat bird.

[Vecten]

And they say Jersey Giants make good meat birds. All these breeds are available as hatching eggs on ebay.

[Vecten]

Older birds tend to need cooking differently than "broilers"

If you have a slow cooker, you can produce a very tasty and tender "roast" chicken by cooking it for several hours (if you sprinkle the skin with paprika it even looks roast).

I can vouch for that. 6 hours on low in a slow cooker will turn any old bird into a delicious meal. Paprika or tumeric sprinkled on it will make it look good too. Add half an inch of water to keep it moist. It's what they call a pot roast, Americans seem to do it a lot.

[pekinpete]

i agree with casey76 about sussex x indian game make good table birds but if indian game cockerel is x with sussex hen, pullet chicks hatch brown cockerel chicks hatch white pullet chicks from such mating are fair layers.

[wildwitchy]

My friend from the allotment does ross cobbs from day olds. Rears them on organic feed (they do eat alot). They are dressed out at around 7-8llb & are the best tasting chickens ive ever tasted.

The legs are very gamey as they've been running around on grass etc. 1 bird does me & hubby for about 4 meals!

I also know of a breeder on ebay that was thinking of doing a cross of indian game & burford brown for the table/eggs. Apparently it would be the ideal smallholder bird.

[GrannieAnnie]

We grow Hubbard chicks for meat, and everyone says how nice the meat is.

But we did get an Indian game cockerel and tried him with a Barred plymouth rock, a RIR and a LS hen, but everytime he tried to get sexy, they could run faster than him!  So we've had no chicks to try out!

Anyone want a rather chunky looking short legged Indian Game cockerel FTGH??

[Brad26]

Thanks for the advice people, think i'm going to look for someone who supplies indian game x light sussex hatching eggs or should it be the other way round? not sure but i'll soon find out i guess.

[digga666]

Raising this one back up because some of the answers are here but:-

When reference to older birds needing a different slower type of cooking are we talking of birds like Le bresse  and co which may only be ready at 26 weeks or do you refer to older ex duel purpose layers?

My aim was/is to use a duel purpose bird and  feed just organic grain while they are free ranging outside on fresh grass.

I didnt want to use a broiler for this purpose because of the area which can be wet and windy, so i was hoping to use a more hardy bird.

The egg side of it doesnt matter as i was just going to keep a few for eggs and the rest for the table.

So is this not achievable and/or do i need a different bird etc?

[darkbrowneggs]

I reckon an English Cuckoo Marans takes some beating as a table bird (check out my site for details of rearing and cooking) but basically I hatch and raise the chicks on starter/grower, then introduce straight wheat asap, half and half at first then when they are big enough to be safe in the day they are allowed quality free range and unlimited straight wheat

They get to about 2 - 2.5 kilos in  about 24-30 weeks.  They then have around 10 -14 days in a smallish quietly situated house (loosebox in my case) and are fed on soaked or cooked wheat/peas/maize or similar

If roasting I put onions/apple/lemon in the cavity and a little stock in the bottom of a lidded casserole.  20/30 mins at high heat then 3 to 4 hours very slow, followed by brisk browning with lid off.  My favourite way is poached chicken - all this roast chicken is quite a new idea, and in fact to be accurate we should  call it baked chicken - roast should be in front of flames, baked is in an oven

The  Marans has an excellent flavour and good fine texture flesh -  not the gummy pappy texture of a commercial type bird. 

Obviously all the girls are kept as layers for their premium quality eggs.

[digga666]

Thanks......I once saw a tv program where they dropped a prepared chicken in boiling water and boiled it for 5 minutes.......It was cooked! Out in the far east somewhere but i think I prefer roast chicken or curries.

Are you saying that at 24 weeks these birds would roast ok and not be chewy old leather?

I was going to buy a ton of organic mixed grain and let them scratch away.

[darkbrowneggs]

It depends how good a cook you are.  If you are just going to stick it in a hot oven till the recipe says it is cooked then yes it I would think it won't be particularly tender.

But if I have an even older bird I think they are still fine for eating.  If it is a layer which is not performing properly then anything up to about a couple of years seems ok but after that they really are too tough

If it is an un-needed stock cockerel of up to a couple of years old I would generally use that for Coq au Vin , in which case I would marinade it for about 24 hours in red wine, wine vinegar and olive oil with herbs then cook slowly with onions herbs and stock. 

I do like my birds hung for 2-4 days (depending on the weather) before they are drawn, but I think if you want to draw them straight away then just put them in the fridge for a day or two before freezing/eating

If you try to cook a "proper" bird according to today's recipes - which are really written for birds which are still "cheeping" ie a growing chick - then you are just asking for a poor result.  A roaster, technically is around 14 weeks old and a fryer 6-8 weeks, so if that is what you are after then choose a commercial meat type.  I don't dislike roast fowl but really poached is far superior both hot and especially cold.  And of course you could always use the legs for curry, and the breast for stir fry.

I think I must add a proper recipe section to my site   

All the best
Sue

[Casey76]

Hi Digga666, I think anything other than a commercial broiler (slaughter at 5-8 weeks old) required slower cooking.  When you see something marked as 25 mins + 20mins per lb - stick in the oven and leave, well the reason why they are sto tender is that a) they are just chicks, and b) they don't actually have any exercise to harden the muscles.  you can tell becasue the leg meat is almost as pale as the breast meat.

For dual purpose birds, such as La Bresse Gauloise, Ixworth etc, when they are table weight at about 26-30 weeks, they need a little more care and attention when cooking.

If you want to roast them, they will need a longer time at a lower temperature, and they will probably need basting to ensure the breast meat stays moist and tender.

I've raised about 8 different breeds for meat now, from the medium growth table hybrids, to dual purpose traditional French breeds.

My favourite is a Sasso Cendre - which looks like a Bluebelle, but instead of being selected for eggs, they have been selected for their meat (though the pullets lay a nice, medium sized egg).  I've never had any problems with legs or heart attacks.  The boys are pretty laid back and I've never had any problems with fighting, though I usually dispatch no later than 16 weeks.  They also pluck easily, dry or wet, and although I don't like to hang them for more than 24 hours they taste divine.

Plus they are pretty to look at

[digga666]

Thanks both

On the subject of Le bresse type chickens, will they not be at killing weight until 26 weeks free ranging on grain?

Or is there any other hardy breeds which will be ready in less than 26 weeks free ranging?

[Casey76]

Well it's all about maturity.  Generally a bird is considered mature (adult) at 26 weeks and is unlikely to grow any more.

With birds for the table there is a balance between growth and tenderness.  You can take a 6month old cockerel and a year old cock, and while there may not be much difference in the height, the cock will be substantially larger due to "substance"

If you wanted a dual purpose bird for the table before 26 weeks, then I think you would have to restrict movement and feed a high protein diet.

You restrict movement becasue the morse exercise he gets the leaner he will be (coversion of food:weight will be reduced becasue he will be using the calorific intake as fuel for exercise), and feed a high protein diet because protein adds muscle quicker and easier than carbohydrate.

So if you kept your birds in a pen and fed only a rearer pellet they would reach table weight quicker than free rangers.  The dressed carcass would also look different... fleshier breast and plumper legs on the birds with restircted movement.