[Goldfinger]

I've heard them, but know absolutley nowt about them, except they're the proper old traditional varieties before F1's and scientist's going mad and crossing them with whatever to produce whoopee do mega cropping - all singing - all dancing varieties.

Was thinking of growing a heritage variety this year. Hopefully...

[gobs]

Some are extremely heavy croppers themselves.

Modern varieties are bred with supermarkets in mind. One very important field of criteria for breeding new ones involves: shelf life and transportation issues.

You won't have either in the home garden, so might as well try some.

Purple podded pea, for example. Romping away as seedlings in my unheated gh as we speak.

Crystal lemon/lemon cucumber. A bush for a cuke, matures 60 days or so from planting. It gave me cucumbers in the most flooded summers we had, too. And did not struggle with fungal diseases either.

[mumofstig]

Heritage just means old, it doesn't necessarily mean better  

Some may taste better, but may be prone to diseases or have weaker growth, that kind of thing.
A few of us tried some heritage tomato varieties last year, and weren't impressed, although I think, between us, we found 1 or 2 worth growing again.
Scientists are not all mad/bad and they're trying to breed the best crops. Like the breeding of the blight resistant Sarpo potatoes, that many people rely on for a crop, so it's not all bad news

There are many varieties out there that are non f1 and not listed as Heritage, have a nose around and try a few

[gobs]

Heritage just means old, it doesn't necessarily mean better  

Some may taste better, but may be prone to diseases or have weaker growth, that kind of thing.
A few of us tried some heritage tomato varieties last year, and weren't impressed, although I think, between us, we found 1 or 2 worth growing again.
Scientists are not all mad/bad and they're trying to breed the best crops. Like the breeding of the blight resistant Sarpo potatoes, that many people rely on for a crop, so it's not all bad news

There are many varieties out there that are non f1 and not listed as Heritage, have a nose around and try a few

Indeed, there are all sorts among them.

[Trillium]

Heritage varieties were seeds selected by our ancestors that did best in their own soils and growing areas. What did well in Scotland may not do so well down in Kent, etc. same with growing conditions - too acidic, too alkaline, etc. So our ancestors selected what worked for them and passed down the seeds. Its not to say that the seeds won't grow in other areas, they will, but they just won't be as hardy or prolific as in their gathered area.

Another point about heirlooms/heritage, is that they were also selected for various area pests and disease problems as more resistant. Again, not to say that they were totally pest or disease free, but that they did better than other varieties for that area.

Also, maturity times varied greatly. Scotland might like faster maturing toms while Devon might not need anything so fast. My mother lives 30 minutes east of me, but she's in a much higher elevation and must grow only 60 day toms or the frosts get them. I can grow any tom variety I want (which drives her bonkers  ). Again, the preferred variety was grown and from that the earliest maturing toms would have been selected more closely, etc.

The extent of hardiness, colours, shapes, etc are a wonderful 'mine' to work with which is why hybrid breeders still need them to breed future generations. And should the day happen when hybrids lose their original 'parent' plants, the rest of us still have lots of choice left. Plus, often hybrids must sacrifice flavour for perhaps better shipping, etc. Keep in mind that hybrids were originally developed for the commercial, not the domestic, trade: delayed ripening, better shipping, uniform colouring or sizes, etc. Home growers don't need these but the hybridizers found an extra market for their products when home growers thought they were getting something better. Must admit that Sungold toms are a definite exception (yummm).

The biggest problem with heirlooms is the huge range of choice in any veg.     There are hundreds of choices alone in toms, and still more coming out of forgotten drawers, etc.

[Goldfinger]

Thanks all so far  ,

What I want to know now is, Trillium says what grows well in Devon will not do as well in Scotland.

So, when I come to get some seeds, be it catalogue, on-line of from a garden centre, do they state where in the country they may do better etc, or is it pot luck??

[arugula]

I think the same rules will apply as those which work for "modern" seeds.

[gobs]

Thanks all so far  ,

What I want to know now is, Trillium says what grows well in Devon will not do as well in Scotland.

So, when I come to get some seeds, be it catalogue, on-line of from a garden centre, do they state where in the country they may do better etc, or is it pot luck??

With a number of veg seed it is a bit of a pot luck. That's what new breeding has been trying to illiminate. A bit of surching for the Holly Grail. But as MOS said, they succeeded in a lot of respects. In most reasonable conditions, most will perform, depending on your locality, you need to sow them at different times. That's what the often misunderstood label means, most commonly. Sow from March - May. This does not mean any time really. It means, if you are in Scotland, sow May, etc.

With fruit, the situation is more serious. They will indeed tell you, any reliable nursery, what variety you can grow in your area. This,  even though a lesser extent, still applies to your veg, as per Trill.

[TheSpartacat]

You'll find that quite a lot of heritage varieties do well pretty much across Britain, as they were, before F1 varieties were bred, popular and common varieties grown up and down the country and as such are bred to suit a UK climate. Many of them are well known, like Amsterdam forcing or Autumn King carrots, and are still high up the list of what people choose to buy, and often still regarded by many as the best of their kinds... (you might be already growing them and not know it!!)

Extremities of climate in the country, like Scotland, will naturally favour plants with shorter cropping times- especially for sun sensitive plants like tomatoes or sweetcorn... and you should be able to get that kind of info from the seed description as to how long the growing season needed is...

What you'll find, if you save your own seed from season to season, choosing seed from the strongest plants, your seed stock over generations will continue to adapt to your own area, as you're choosing from the plants that fared the best in your particular conditions, so you're choosing the best genetic strains... (but it can be a bit of a faff with many veg)
Like, Cavolo Nero kale is regarded by many as the best kale, but it was originally bred in Italy... the seed you buy in the UK has already been grown on and selected for this climate so it does well everywhere i believe.

I'm in the south, so i've never had any issues growing heritage or found them particularly troublesome, and I mainly grow heritage types. (some of them quite strange and rare)
I get a lot of personal satisfaction growing unusual kinds, or knowing i'm helping to keep heritage types going...

[Goldfinger]

I think I'm standing in good stead on my plot for warmer climate stuff, I'm the middle plot of three, along a south facing, close boarded fence, with houses and a high thick tree line along the westside boundary (prevailing wind).

I've done a search on here too on growing heritage stuff, and some people are asking should they return some seeds to the company, to keep the variety going.

[mumofstig]

I get a lot of personal satisfaction growing unusual kinds, or knowing i'm helping to keep heritage types going...

But only if they are worth growing  
I had a greenhouse full of different tomatoes last year- and only one will I grow again  
You've just as much chance of liking/disliking heritage veg as modern open-pollinated (or even f1s. - some of which are very worthwhile)
The only way is to grow and try a variety or 2 for yourself. Good luck  

[DD.]

It wasn't just mum's growing conditions either. I sent her the seeds I got from the HSL. Most of mine were pants as well.

Just as well I had other back ups. It's back to F1 Shirley for me this year.

[gobs]

I think I'm standing in good stead on my plot for warmer climate stuff, I'm the middle plot of three, along a south facing, close boarded fence, with houses and a high thick tree line along the westside boundary (prevailing wind).

I've done a search on here too on growing heritage stuff, and some people are asking should they return some seeds to the company, to keep the variety going.

I think you only do that with the Heritage Seed Library. Or at any rate, you will be specially asked to do so.

[DD.]

Not the HSL as such, but if you take on a role as Seed Guardian through them, that is your specific purpose. You do get to keep some of the seed you cultivate and it's a way of getting more free seed!

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/guardians.php

[sunshineband]

I get a lot of personal satisfaction growing unusual kinds, or knowing i'm helping to keep heritage types going...

But only if they are worth growing  
I had a greenhouse full of different tomatoes last year- and only one will I grow again  
You've just as much chance of liking/disliking heritage veg as modern open-pollinated (or even f1s. - some of which are very worthwhile)
The only way is to grow and try a variety or 2 for yourself. Good luck  

Part of the enjoymwnt is trying new varieties each year, and having some that perform well for you as well so that you don't starve 

I have a couple of 'new' heritage tomatoes from friends this year that  they have said were worth growing for them, last year. For me, and this year, it might be different, but it is interesting to try, as I said