[allotmentann]

I have been very lucky with my plot in that the previous owner worked a lot of the soil well, but there are parts that were covered for a long time and I want to get the soil workable. I am looking at growing green manures (particularly ones for breaking down clay soil). I am thinking of trying field beans, mustard, sweet clover and Italian rye grass. I wondered if there is anything that I should know from those of you who have tried these? I am frightened of introducing something that may become invasive or that is exceptionally hard to dig out/over. (I love weeding but I have plenty to go at without adding something that will increase the workload!). I would also be interested to hear of any good experiences anyone has had in using this method to improve clay and what seed varieties you would recommend? Thank you.

[Yorkie]

Mustard is a member of the brassica family so needs to be taken into account for crop rotation purposes and if you have clubroot.

Rye grass can be quite hard to dig in, yes.

Here's a useful website
http://www.greenmanure.co.uk/

[allotmentann]

Hi Yorkie thanks for that. I don't grow any brassicas at the minute and will probably never grow many, so mustard may be ok. I did wonder about the difficulty of digging in rye grass which is why I was interested to know if anyone had actually tried it.

[gremlin]

I have not found any green manure that breaks down my clay soil all by itself.  I've tried lupins as they have deep roots, but I found them hard to get going.  Pretty, though.

I have now settled on mustard and phalacelia for the green bulk, although once composted there isn't much bulk left.

[allotmentann]

Hi Gremlin thanks for that. I think I will try mustard but perhaps won't expect too much!

[richrua]

I tried alfalfa but it didnt seem to even germinate.

This year I have one large bed with Phacelia. I broadcast it and raked it in. It is doing well - especially considering all other things I have sown are not doing well at all this year.

It is apparently easy to dig in as it has softer growth. (My plot neighbour thought it was loads of carrots).

[Salmo]

Italian ryegrass is not too bad to dig in. It is winter rye that can  be difficult as it is so vigorous.

A mixture of Italian ryegrass and crimson clover with or without some mustard is good. The mustard acts as a nurse crop and is best cut or pulled and composted leaving the others to grow on. If the green growth looks a bit much to dig in then you can strim it off and compost it. The value is in the extensive fibrous root system of the ryegrass and the nitrogen fixing of the clover.

The secret of green manure is to dig properly with a spade so that any green growth is turned into the bottom of the furrow. Scratching about with a fork will not do.

[allotmentann]

Thank you both for that. Richrua,  I would be very interested to know what you think to the Phacelia when you have dug it in. Salmo, that is interesting advice, I would probably have to break it up with a fork then turn it over. It was the fibrous roots that bothered me. If my soil is already very hard and then I add a crop with fibrous roots, will I be able to get through it to turn it? A mix may be the best option then. And definitely no scratching about with a fork!

[Salmo]

The fibrous roots will open up your hard soil. Dig with a spade. Chop into squares and turn over. If you break it with a fork it will be all bitty and more difficult to turn in.

I have an opinion on phacelia. A very easy crop to manage. Just dig it in at any stage. Good to cover ground between crops. It will sometimes go through the Winter but not always. If you let some flower the bees love it.

[allotmentann]

Thanks for that Salmo, I will give both rye and phacelia a try. It is good to hear from someone who has actually tried these methods. So if all the roots are not covered does that just slow decomposition or does it mean a new crop of grass over the area?

[Yorkie]

When I dug rye in, not all of it decomposed and some of it grew back out of the soil ... 

[allotmentann]

  That is one of the reasons I was asking! I would rather know what to expect at least! Just trying to come up with the best cheap ways to improve my soil (no access to manure). I am happy to put in some hard work, but won't be happy if I see no results for my efforts!

[Growster...]

Great to see this discussion going now, as Mrs Growster and I were considering (about two hours ago) what to do next year, as there will not be enough compost to go round, and horse/farmyard manure isn't exactly cheap...

We always use 6X as a big fix, but at ten quid a pop, it isn't cheap, and so we use it as a liquid feed, supplemented with nettle tea and comfrey tea.

The green manure just seems to fit the bill, and I'll keep all these tips in a safe place - many thanks!

[allotmentann]

I have been trying the nettle tea (wow! That stuff pongs!). I certainly can't afford to buy in a lot of stuff and it would make for very expensive veg if I did! It can get to the point where it would be cheaper to buy from the nearest organic farm shop. I know there are lots of other lovely things about having an allotment that money can't buy, but for some of us expense has to be spared somewhere! But poor soil is not an option either, so I will try anything to improve it.

[Growster...]

I have been trying the nettle tea (wow! That stuff pongs!). I certainly can't afford to buy in a lot of stuff and it would make for very expensive veg if I did! It can get to the point where it would be cheaper to buy from the nearest organic farm shop. I know there are lots of other lovely things about having an allotment that money can't buy, but for some of us expense has to be spared somewhere! But poor soil is not an option either, so I will try anything to improve it.

Oh yes, Ann, it really aches doesn't it! The comfrey tea is just as bad too...

If you can steep some manure in a butt, and maybe add the nettle tea and/or comfrey tea, you have a pretty rich mix, which, when diluted, does wonders for top veg. Watch out on roots though, as they then get odd shapes!

But as for the pong, well, the veg don't mind!