Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Eating and Drinking => Cooking, Storing and Preserving => Topic started by: Kleftiwallah on March 13, 2013, 16:24

Title: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 13, 2013, 16:24

The scenario is this,  I've carried out the instructions to the letter but when I finally come to put the loaf tins and dough into the oven, I accidentally catch the corner of a tin on the door and the risen dough sinks like the Titanic ! 

Yet I see cooks/bakers on the T.V.  throwing the dough around like nobodies business.

Anyone any ideas on how to maintain my risen dough other than avoiding knocks?
  Cheers,   Tony.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: DD. on March 13, 2013, 16:30
You don't throw risen dough around!

You're going to have to be more careful as you said!
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: GrannieAnnie on March 13, 2013, 16:47
I am always careful with my tins of risen dough.  If I do catch them at all and they sink.  I just leave them to rise again.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: grendel on March 13, 2013, 16:48
I let mine rise in the tin in the oven, then when its risen enough I turn the oven on - no problem.
Grendel
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Trillium on March 13, 2013, 21:07
I do the same as Grendel.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 14, 2013, 21:45

But GrannieAnnie, just like the Titanic - my loaves never rise again :(

That is a very good idea Grendel,  I shall give it a go. :)

Thanks for all your knowledgeable replies.  I could call it my speciality - pumpernickell ! ! !

Follow on question, the skin of my bread dough gets very dry and a tough(ish) skin. ???

Cheers,   Tony.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: DD. on March 14, 2013, 21:49
I brush mine with oil - not your engine oil, Tony - sunflower oil. It keeps the top moist & stretchy whilst the dough is rising.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: GrannieAnnie on March 14, 2013, 23:04
I lightly oil a piece of cling film and lay that over the loaf tin, or I've just discovered that my big cake tray cover is just high enough to stop the dough drying out while it is rising.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Trillium on March 15, 2013, 03:05
When I'm ready to do the first rise, I clean and dry the bowl, then rub a bit of olive oil everywhere and roll the ball of dough in that to let it rise. Any oil will do but I prefer olive oil.

When I do the 2nd rise, there's still enough oil left on the dough (or you can lightly wipe a bit more on). I've never had a hard or dry crust.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: allotmentann on March 15, 2013, 06:58
If the dough sinks that fast with a knock, (although it perhaps depends how hard the knock is) you may be leaving them to rise for too long. There is a simple two finger test you can do (no rude comments!), that works for all stages of bread making.
1. Knead until  when you push two fingers half an inch into the dough it bounces back and fills the depression left quickly.
2. It is ready to be 'knocked back' (a misnomer as you should never be heavy handed with your dough) when two fingers pushed in leave an indent that does not fill in. The finger impressions remain.
3. It is ready to bake when the indent left by two fingers fills in very slowly (this shows that the yeast is running out of the food it needs to rise. If two fingers leave an indent at this stage yoiu have over proved it and there is little that you can do. You could perhaps try deflating it and letting it rise a third time. To get it to rise well in the oven the yeast needs to still have some ability to rise left in it when it goes in. :)
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: grendel on March 15, 2013, 08:35
to stop the dough going crusty, when I knead the bread I put a little veg oil on my hands before I knead, this stops the dough sticking, plus leaves the outside of the dough ball lightly oiled,
rising - 2 rises of 40-45 minutes each, first in the bowl with a teatowel over it (if the houdse is cold its done in the oven (we have an electric fan oven and I have found if you turn it on just very slightly so the 'heating' light just comes on for a few seconds occasionally it will run at just warmer than room temp- I marked the dial with a 'B' at this point) then kneaded and into the bread tin (no tea towel) then after the second 45 minutes just whack the oven to 180 deg for 35 minutes and bingo perfect bread (the dough mix I use at first seems very wet, but its good by the second rise.
Grendel
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: grendel on March 15, 2013, 08:38
heres what yesterdays granary loaf (1/3 granary flour - 2/3 white) came out like.
Grendel
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 15, 2013, 09:52

More useful tips,  thanks once more.  I actually pour in about half an egg cup of good olive oil when starting to make the bread.

Cheers to one and all.  Tony.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: compostqueen on March 15, 2013, 11:14
I like a tablespoon of oil in too, or butter of course  :D

That looks a lovely loaf Grendel.  I prefer a wetter mixture than a drier one and it's just something you get used to, although it's a bit worrying at first but it soon comes together to a smooth ball. I think people panic and start chucking flour on which is not a good idea

I've been using malt flake flour recently and am now on a bag of mixed seed flour. I do like to experiment with different flours. Spelt is my favourite I think
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 15, 2013, 11:43

Is that spelt correctly?  What is Spelt?  "Bit like Hou Hi is a Chinaman!"

Cheers,   Tony.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Mrs Bee on March 15, 2013, 12:25
Hi Tony. Spelt is a wheat like grain and the flour tastes rather like wholemeal flour.

It is a grain that has been around for a very long time. There is evidence of spelt grains in Ancient Egyptian and Neolithic civilisations.

It is experiencing a bit of a revival at the moment in the realms of the health food shops.

I think I have seen it in Waitrose too.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: GrannieAnnie on March 15, 2013, 13:08
I think I've seen it in Tesco too.  Must try it one day.  So would you make spelt bread like wholemeal then?

And what about opinions on rye flour please??
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Trillium on March 15, 2013, 14:16
Spelt is an excellent substitute for people with wheat sensitivities. However, pure spelt makes a very heavy loaf so it either needs to be mixed with another suitable flour (even some wheat if it's not too bad a problem for you) or you use a 'light' spelt that can be used on its own. Not sure what the light spelt contains but I can buy it as such here. For pure spelt, you'd need a 50/50 mix of spelt and wheat.

A lot of rye flours are quite heavy as well and need to be mixed with some wheat flour, usually an all purpose type. If you check store rye bread labels, most will have some portion of wheat flour in them, some even start with wheat flour with a bit of rye. Rye is very good for people with wheat sensitivities but do be careful how much wheat flour you blend in. Rye can even be used in sourdoughs.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: compostqueen on March 15, 2013, 15:24
I make spelt loaves with just spelt and no other flour and they come out well I have to say.  I make a spelt and olive loaf and one using walnuts, figs and orange juice. 

Rye is a grey flour and I've not used it on its own as it's quite heavy.   Northern Europeans would probably disagree as I think they seem to be most keen on it. 

I've got a rye starter on the go at the moment
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: GrannieAnnie on March 15, 2013, 16:27
Thanks girls.  May have an experiment!   :) :)
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Trillium on March 16, 2013, 01:43
It's very possible that spelt flour in the UK is already 'lightened' so it can be used as is.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: mumofstig on March 16, 2013, 09:35
We can get wholemeal or white spelt four here, now, I wonder if that's what you mean Trillium?
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Trillium on March 16, 2013, 14:30
That's probably what it is. When I buy it, it's called 'light spelt' so I'd assume there's already a wheat flour ratio blended in to lighten it for bread baking. Considering the cost, I'd just as soon blend in my own wheat flour which I can get cheaper.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 23, 2013, 19:30

Gonna try bread with buttermilk, if I can find it!  An Irish relative goes bananas for the stuff.

Cheers,   Tony.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: grendel on March 23, 2013, 19:55
get some thick cream, put it in a jamjar and shake until it turns to butter, the liquid left is your buttermilk - plus you get home made butter to go on your bread.
Grendel
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: surbie100 on March 23, 2013, 21:32
Having scandi/germanic origins I'm very keen on rye. I mix it half and half usually.

Made this one yesterday - should have gone with the gut feeling that 1 tbsp salt was way too much - I put in less than called for and it's bordering on inedible and didn't rise well. They must mean 1 tsp...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/scandinavian_rye_bread_93361 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/scandinavian_rye_bread_93361)

PS Have only used spelt as a grain, not a flour, but it's a delicious substitute for rice/bulgar wheat.
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: allotmentann on March 24, 2013, 08:36
I think it may have that much salt to counter the amount of sugar. I don't usually add sugar to bread, I can always taste it and I don't like sweet bread unless it is meant to be a 'sweet' bread - like fruit loaf etc. I usually use two teaspoons of salt to 500g of flour, so a tablespoon in that recipe is only one extra, which with the two tablespoons of sugar is probably right. A change in the amount of salt or sugar in a loaf compared to what you are used to is very noticeable isn't it? I recently made rye for the first time (I thought that it tasted pretty much like wholemeal, although it was a light or medium rye that I used) and I used this recipe and will definitely use it again, it even came out looking just like the picture! :)
http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=83
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: New shoot on March 24, 2013, 11:23
To go back to keeping dough from developing a hard skin, it needs a protected atmosphere so the surface doesn't dry.  I've got a cheap houseplant hand sprayer that I only use for bread and lightly spray the surface of loaves with water, then cover loosely with cling film.

They get another spray as they go into the oven to keep the crust from setting too fast.  You get a much better 'oven rise' doing this  :)
Title: Re: Problem with bread.
Post by: Kleftiwallah on March 24, 2013, 13:35

A partial success  ::)  I left the bread dough in the oven during the final 45 min' proving under as damp towel to stop a skin forming on the top.  BUT. . .carefully removing the towel caused a partial deflation of the dough. 

I left it half an hour longer and it came up again (the tops not quite as rounded) but a definite improvement. :)

Cheers and thanks for all the hints. :) :) :)

Cheers,   Tony.