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Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.

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Snailsbane

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Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« on: May 29, 2024, 13:40 »
This is our situation:
Our allotment site is fully self managed and allows chickens as part of the Tenancy Agreement.  We ask only that members ask permission first ( as a courtesy and so the Committee knows what is going on) and the rules stipulate an immediate override of a our rules by any DEFRA rulings.  The Committee don't police defra rules they just advise that they must be followed.

here's my question:
As a self managed site are we subject to the Allotment Act 1950?  Can members just bring chickens to the plot anyway, as of right?  I can't find anything of substance online.  The answers are not on the NSALG site it's all  Allotment act 1950 with them and in an ideal world there would be no problems.

But we have this one member...
We have a member who is quite a determined individual.  They bring their chicks to the site everyday with out asking permission and they have list "informed" us that they will be a permanent fixture quite soon.  We are not a heavy handed Committee and we can't police the site daily nor would we want to.  We want this member to enjoy their plot and chickens and they keep a good plot.   (But this person would call the sea stupid and tell it to make it's mind up. In or out, not all this fussing about.)  I don't want this member getting the site into trouble especially with the new registing rules.  But they hate being told what to do. and I want to be able to have the treat of a chicken ban if they  muck us around but i don't want to use other rules which would mean eviction. We only chuck people out for doing nothing and being a problem to other members, not for being flaming difficult. ;)

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New shoot

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2024, 14:49 »
I have a plot and am site rep on a council run site and we are not allowed chickens.  They are permitted on a couple of sites in the area, but you have to apply for permission.  This is their wording on the subject if it helps.

Quote
Chickens

Livestock may NOT be kept on allotments, EXCEPT xxxx and xxxx Allotments, where the keeping of chickens/ducks is permitted, with written consent of the Council and subject to the following special conditions, A- The numbers of chickens/ducks must be manageable; B-the livestock are well and humanely managed; and C- they do not cause any danger, nuisance, interference, disturbance or annoyance to Tenants or to anyone else including members of the public and the owners or occupiers of the neighbouring and adjoining property or plot holders. The Council may decide that keeping livestock on the site would be prejudicial to health or a nuisance and has discretion to suspend permission to keep chickens/ducks on site.

For what it is worth, my experience as site rep has mostly been positive, but I have had a couple of people of a similar mind set to your tenant.  Just telling people what the rules are is not heavy handed and if people are doing things without permission, you have every right to tell them there are consequences if they persist.  They are trying to ride rough shod over you and make their own rules and that is just not how it works - either for allotments or life in general.

I would say stick by your guns and tell them if they continue to do so, they risk eviction.  You don’t have to actually start any steps to do this.  That may be enough to stop them.  If not, I would say go ahead and start the process.  You are not evicting someone for being flaming difficult, they are doing that to themselves  ;)

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Yorkie

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2024, 20:06 »
It's my view that you are actually bound by the Act.

Section 12 refers to "any land" and "any provision" in "any" tenancy etc.

There are no restrictions therefore on who the Act applies to.

That being said, there is a caveat about the nature of the chicken keeping. It must not cause a statutory nuisance, or be prejudicial (harmful) to (human) health, or breach existing laws.
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snowdrops

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2024, 20:19 »
Quote from: Yorkie on May 29, 2024, 20:06
It's my view that you are actually bound by the Act.

Section 12 refers to "any land" and "any provision" in "any" tenancy etc.

There are no restrictions therefore on who the Act applies to.

That being said, there is a caveat about the nature of the chicken keeping. It must not cause a statutory nuisance, or be prejudicial (harmful) to (human) health, or breach existing laws.

That’s interesting Yorkie. But if the troublesome individual has signed the allotment tenancy they should comply to the rules. I wouldn’t be in a hurry to point out the allotment act as quoted by Yorkie. What on earth is matter with the tenant as it would appear to just need to politely ask permission,which sounds as if it’s a given will be allowed !
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Yorkie

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2024, 20:40 »
It doesn't matter if someone has signed a tenancy agreement. The Act says that even if a contract contains a ban, the person is allowed to keep rabbits or hens. A contract can't override an Act of Parliament (even if it purports to).

But yes, you could try simply referring to the tenancy agreement they have signed. And if they are not abiding by other rules, or causing a nuisance to others, then they lose their right to keep them anyway.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 20:43 by Yorkie »
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New shoot

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2024, 20:53 »
I think that is how our council side steps the Act.  If you sign your tenancy agreement you already know they won’t allow you to keep chickens, so they will find a way to kick you off for non-compliance if you make waves.  Even on the sites they do allow them, it is only in a rat and fox secure roofed run with no free-ranging, so a plot holder turning up with hens they let wander each day would be out in no time.

Quote from: snowdrops on May 29, 2024, 20:19
What on earth is matter with the tenant as it would appear to just need to politely ask permission,which sounds as if it’s a given will be allowed !

My thoughts as well  :lol:  Some people do just have a talent for making their own lives difficult don’t they.  Or … they are planning something they know the committee will object to and are asserting their right to ignore the rules now in preparation for that. 


Incidentally, John the site owner did have a battle with his council at the time about chickens on his allotment.  This is from the main site about his experiences. 

https://www.chickens.allotment-garden.org/keeping-chickens/keeping-chickens-allotment-poultry-plot/

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Aunt Sally

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2024, 23:31 »
Quote from: Yorkie on May 29, 2024, 20:40
It doesn't matter if someone has signed a tenancy agreement. The Act says that even if a contract contains a ban, the person is allowed to keep rabbits or hens. A contract can't override an Act of Parliament (even if it purports to).

But yes, you could try simply referring to the tenancy agreement they have signed. And if they are not abiding by other rules, or causing a nuisance to others, then they lose their right to keep them anyway.


That is exactly correct.  Statutory allotments, ie. those that are owned by the council, are covered by the Allotments Act.   NO local rules, tenancy agreements or bylaws can trump an Act of Parliament; no matter how much the local authority wants them to.  But the animals must be kept properly and cause no nuisance.
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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2024, 08:32 »
I think that is the nub of it.  You may have a right to keep chickens, but going at it bull headed and ignoring the niceties are going to get you nowhere.

Where I am they would say move to one of the sites that allow them, then comply with all our provisions of how your set-up will be and if not we can wave nuisance or other problems at you till you quit or we end your tenancy. I am sure they would happily shop me to DEFRA as well if they thought I was flouting their rules on registration or bird flu prevention.

I don’t think Snailsbane site is being difficult at all.  Ask permission and you will likely get it.  John’s piece offers a lot of useful advice about getting people including plot neighbours on side.  That is going to be needed, because complaints of smell, rats, noise or other nuisance will likely mean you are told you can no longer keep chickens there. 

Sometimes getting what you want is a bit more subtle than waving a law in people’s faces and demanding your rights  :)
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grinling

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Re: Self managed site which allows chickens. Need some guidance.
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2024, 15:31 »
I always found people were concerned about rats, smells & animal welfare.
Ask to see how the chicken run will be constructed to minimise rats, flies, foxes, mink etc and how they will be storing animal feeds. Solid roofs are better, how will waste products be removed.
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