[emmalm]

I'm thoroughly confused, I have read the advice on the site about clearing a new plot and posts as well. I'd worked from the advice that I would spray glyphosate on half the plot and then rotivate it after 3-4 weeks or when the weeds have all died for use this year. Then put the most of the other half under black plastic for next year and dig a couple of beds for immediate use.

But the local allotment officer suggested that I shouldn't rotivate even after spraying with glyphosate as there are some small bindweed plants in a couple of places that the rotivator would chop up and spread. I've also got dock and nettles in places

So is this right? Could I get away with digging the existing bindweed by hand before spraying and then rotivate? Or do I need to dig the whole lot by hand after spraying?

I should add I'm not starting the plot organically, but hope to go organic(ish) once I have cleared the plot and got going.

Any advice welcome!

[WG.]

Bindweed is a b*tch and rotovating would risk spreading any that survived the spraying.   If it is restricted to small areas, you could single it out for special treatment.  Has anyone used Amcide on bindweed please??

I have tackled bindweed with black polythene mulch but you still need to dig out any which pokes out of the edges (it wanders in search of light).  Also, remove the mulch once or twice per year & scrape up the white roots that will have grown on the surface.  If you lift the soil with a fork & then replace the polythene, it will make any remaining roots easier to dig out next time.

It should also be said that rotovating 3 or more times through the growing season will kill out virtually all perennials.  Basically it means you can’t grow much apart from radish and lettuce though …

Yet another way (from Aidy, I think) is to leave at least a rotovator width between rows so that you can rotovate repeatedly.   Hoe or handweed the actual rows.   Do allow for growth of veggies though.

[vegging out]

It should also be said that rotovating 3 or more times through the growing season will kill out virtually all perennials.  Basically it means you can’t grow much apart from radish and lettuce though …

  Even bindweed W.G?

[Bigbadfrankie]

Regular shallow rotovating will kill all. Rotovating will chop up the roots and multiply the weeds, but if you stay shallow and rotovate regularly the roots send up all their goodness to the plant and eventually run out of steam and die.

[WG.]

It should also be said that rotovating 3 or more times through the growing season will kill out virtually all perennials.  Basically it means you can’t grow much apart from radish and lettuce though …

  Even bindweed W.G?

I did say that bindweed should be "singled out for special treatment".   The rotovate-times-3 was for the rest of the plot.  Bindweed wouldn't like it much either though.

[Annie]

I would try to dig out the bind weed as much as you can and mark where it was with a can,glyophosphate/rotovate as advised replacing the cane markers as you go.This way,hopefully you would not chop up and spread bind weed roots and if you leave the canes and it grows again you canlet it grow up the canes a good 4 foot then unwind from the cane,stuff in a big plastic bag and spray in the bag with glyophosphate,tie bag and leave.You will get little bits up inplaces again but if you pull out as you find they will give up eventually.
I think the main thing is to get something planted and try not to get overwhelmed by it all and give up.And always remember we`re always here to give conflicting advice on any subject you like to choose.....

[andygh]

Regular shallow rotovating will kill all. Rotovating will chop up the roots and multiply the weeds, but if you stay shallow and rotovate regularly the roots send up all their goodness to the plant and eventually run out of steam and die.

100% in agreement, I have so much trouble getting this message accross to people

[shaun]

i have never used roundup or any type of weedkiller on my plots,just regular rotavating and winter digging does the trick.

[emmalm]

Thanks for all the advice, sounds like I'll save myself more work later if I try and dig out the bindweed.

Annie, the canes really great idea to catch the inevitable bits I miss!

Time for some digging I think

[Aidy]

Yep that was me WG, I have left wider gaps between my crops this year so I can turn the gaps over on a regular basis, the idea will be as say the summer cabbages are coming out the gaps will be replaced with winter ones so the summer rows then start to get rotovated in, I can confirm so far it is working and even the horstail seems to be finding it hard to recover from repeated turning over between the rows, the idea is to knock them down before photosynthesis starts which I believe is 2inches high for most weeds.

[wellingtons]

... but when I took my plot on (bindweed, mare's tail, chickweed ... and anything else you care to mention).  I hand weeded and dug over the entire plot, no weed killer, no rotivator.

And I'm now in my third growing season and it's interesting because the bindweed is limited to the edges of the plot, the mare's tail has never migrated down the plot and I have less annual weeds than any of my neighbours, all of whom rotivate the whole shebang every year.

I dig over part of the plot each year, but don't go bonkers at it and I certainly don't double dig.

The first year was crippling on the back, legs, knees and hands, but I'm certain that I'm going to make life easier for myself in the long run.

I wouldn't say I was organic, because ... well just because I'm not ... but I do believe in doing the best you can without resorting to any chemical or mechanical means.

[ytyynycefn]

I did something similar to Wellies when I started my overgrown plot last year - divided it up into beds, put carpet on the paths, and dug each bed by hand - my main weeds are bindweed, bracken and brambles.  I pulled tons of roots out (burnt them) - and planted each bed as I cleared it.  So when I got discouraged by what lay ahead, I could look back on what I'd done and see food growing!

I still get the odd shoot of the evil 3 B's popping up, but less and less as time goes on - they just get pulled or hoed off.

That was done without the aid of a rotavator or glyphosate (I have both in the shed), and worked pretty well - I will probably use the glyphosate on my orchard plot in selected areas to kill specific clumps of bramble, docks and bindweed - but I'm not planning on digging that ground.

[Aidy]

Certain weeds like bindweed and ground elder have been fairly easy to get rid of as the root system is shallow but the horsetail on our site is a total nightmare for everyone, although I am using the rotovator I am still forking through to get as much of the roots out as I can its just the rotovator makes light work of keeping them down. My thoughts are if you are going to rotovate then you must do it regular as you will bring more seed up but you will knock them down, look at it like mowing your lawn, how much horstail do you see there? yes I agree wellies digging is the best method and to do small bits at a time, the reason i choose this method was more down to time having little ones means I cant go for 4 hours at a time its more like an hour or so.