[Jim the builder]

Hi, I have recently been introduced to the idea of "green manure", with a main interest in fenugreek. However on reading a book published by The Royal Horticultural Sociiety (shouldnt there have been a fanfare there?) it says "Unlikely to fix nitrogen in the UK" so now you see my problem, any one got any ideas? Also does any one know how or where to get clover seed in fairly large quanties (larger than seed packets) Thanks

[shaun]

moles seeds
also try field beans for the nitrogen fix

[gobs]

This is of importance to the home gardener only on breaking in soil or having too much land to play with. For or else there is your pulses and you can give surplus away to friends and family. Any only will fix lasting nitrogen, if you turn the whole lot in.

Green manure seed is sold as standard in bigger packs by most good merchants. See Kings, for example. Otherwise, your local farmer is your best mate.

[Aunt Sally]

I've used this company for green manure seeds

http://www.sowseeds.co.uk/green-manure-seeds.html

I can recommend them highly.

[sunshineband]

Fenugreek is not fully hardy and therefore does not set much nitrogen

Clover seed in quantity is readily available : try ebay, as there are several suppliers of both red and white clover seed listed

Hope this helps  

PS I am not a boffin btw  

[TheSpartacat]

I'm not a boffin either but i use green manures.... very good idea for over the winter or when a bed is between uses.... helps to give ground cover to prevent weeds, as many green manures are fast growing and provide excellent organic material for the soil - really good for all patches, not just when you're breaking in the soil or have too much land.

Someone on here recently mentioned using a cheap packet of dried marrofat peas as a green manure - that would set nitrogen, give you lots of organic matter to dig back into the soil, as well as provide you with some tasty pea shoots for salad. 

A really comprehensive list of green manures, their uses, growing length, and what season they grow can be found here:
http://www.greenmanure.co.uk/sow_help.htm
They also sell all the kinds, but as others have said, plenty of other suppliers sell green manure seed.

[gobs]

I'm not a boffin either but i use green manures.... very good idea for over the winter or when a bed is between uses.... helps to give ground cover to prevent weeds, as many green manures are fast growing and provide excellent organic material for the soil - really good for all patches, not just when you're breaking in the soil or have too much land.

Someone on here recently mentioned using a cheap packet of dried marrofat peas as a green manure - that would set nitrogen, give you lots of organic matter to dig back into the soil, as well as provide you with some tasty pea shoots for salad. 

A really comprehensive list of green manures, their uses, growing length, and what season they grow can be found here:
http://www.greenmanure.co.uk/sow_help.htm
They also sell all the kinds, but as others have said, plenty of other suppliers sell green manure seed.

Sorry to argue, but they might not be worth the money time and effort otherwise.

Especially, if not dug in, depending which one.

[TheSpartacat]

No argument if you think its not worth it, but others who use this method may disagree. I guess thats where this site comes in, Jim wants to get the most out of the green manure method and wants advice on how people do it, and it is an excellent way to improve the texture and heart of any patch because the whole point of green manure is to use the plant itself, by digging it in or composting. Feed the soil and not the plant... and a more self-sustainable approach to providing nutrients and soil improvement over buying in manure or feed. If you're using a green manure that suppresses weeds, it may even save time having to weed, and stops nutients from leeching out of bare earth. And improves moisture retention in sandy soils no end... you're aiming for better soil to save you time, expense and heartache in the long term. That site has some excellent info....

Not everyone wants the hassle, but when you're intensively growing as people do on an allotment it's certainly a great method to consider.

Just remember Jim, that all of the green manures need to be factored into your crop rotation system, as clover is a legume for example. And some types are more persistent and might come back, such as rye (but great for a no-dig method of mulching and then planting through plastic)

[Aunt Sally]

Horses for courses SC.  Green manure was disaster on part of my plot but that's a whole new topic 

[TheSpartacat]

Horses for courses SC.  Green manure was disaster on part of my plot but that's a whole new topic  

I'd love to hear... maybe you can help us avoid potential pitfalls
(oh, and i agree on the horses for courses... not everyone wants the hassle or will think its worth it... or will want to leave a patch full of clover for three months... )

[Aunt Sally]

I'd love to hear... maybe you can help us avoid potential pitfalls
(oh, and i agree on the horses for courses... not everyone wants the hassle or will think its worth it... or will want to leave a patch full of clover for three months... )

One day SC

But most people only learn by their own mistakes and we can the advise them rather than preach to them.

[TheSpartacat]

One day SC

But most people only learn by their own mistakes and we can the advise them rather than preach to them.

I hope you're not suggesting i'm preaching Aunt Sally.  :blink:   I think from my comment anyone can see that it's completely irrelevant to me whether people decide to try something or not to bother. I just believe in giving helpful answers to people who want info on how or why.  :blink:

[Aunt Sally]

I hope you're not suggesting i'm preaching Aunt Sally.  :blink:  I think from my comment anyone can see that it's completely irrelevant to me whether people decide to try something or not to bother. I just believe in giving helpful answers to people who want info on how or why.  :blink:

I'm shocked that you think I would suggest that of you SC, so no need to be so defensive  

I don't want to preach to members by giving blow by blow account of my experiences.  I prefer to just give answere to their questions

[TheSpartacat]

I'm shocked that you think I would suggest that of you SC, so no need to be so defensive  

I don't want to preach to members by giving blow by blow account of my experiences.  I prefer to just give answere to their questions

I couldn't think of any other explanation for the comment, and i was surprised Aunt Sally, considering it would only be helpful to anyone looking at this thread and thinking of using green manure to know what problems to watch out for. Thats not preaching in my book, just sharing experience so others can avoid similar problems or use a different tact.  :happy: We're all learning...

[Aunt Sally]

No need to be so defensive SC, you just misunderstood and took it in a way that wasn't intended.

Very off topic now so locked.