Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => Chicken Chat => Topic started by: 1st time veg grower on May 30, 2011, 23:21
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I have ended up in a bit of a pickle and am after a bit of advice.
I have 3 hens and there's only one of me - basic maths shows that I always have a surplus of eggs. Until a few weeks a go I had been giving away my spares to a few chosen people. I liked doing it as a way to say thank you or just as a gift - no real reason, just because its a nice thing to do.
Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I made a mistake. I'm a curate and we're running a course in the local pub. On the night of the course I brought in a dozen eggs to give to a friend who helps me a lot with the youthwork. She was delighted. Someone else there asked why I was giving them away. I told her about the spare eggs and that I liked to give them away to people as a gift. She then asked if she could put in 'an order' for next week and could she have half a dozen. Someone else overheard that and also asked if they could have 6, she said she would like to make a donation for them - I said I give them as gifts, so she said to put it in church funds. The first lady heard this but didn't say she would too. So the next week I took the 12 eggs and the two ladies took them - only one gave me a donation (the second lady).
Anyway, today the first lady asked me if she could put in an order for 18 eggs for next week - 18!!! And because I said yes last time, I kind of felt obliged to agree again. But I have just found out, it turns out that she runs a cake making business and has seen she's onto a good thing. >:( :(
I'm really annoyed as something I was doing as a gift has now become an expectation - a demand almost. So to get around the whole 'order'/demand thing and to perhaps get something good out of it - ie donations to church, I wondered if I could put some (as many as I want) on the stall we have at the back of church. That way she can get them from there and I don't have to feel obliged to fulfil a demand!
Is there any legal reason why I couldn't do this or health and safety issue? Then I can still hold a few back if I wanted to give them away to specific people.
Just really annoyed at myself for getting into this situation and not being clearer about what I meant by a gift!
Thanks.
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Interesting dilemma. And aren't people funny?! :tongue2:
I can't speak for your local laws as I am in NZ but I can tell you what we do to get around this kind of problem.
I'm a member of a non-profit community organisation and there are all sorts of rules about us selling things. So when we want to cover our costs (eg tea and biscuits for an evening event) we give the tea and coffee away for free, and ask for donations to cover the costs. This is very different from "selling" anything and means we don't have to comply with things like food handling rules.
I think probably if you put your eggs out and ask for a donation you could be very clear that you are not selling the eggs. As long as you are careful to ensure the eggs are fresh and healthy you shouldn't have a problem.
The woman using the eggs for her baking business will have her own issues to address - but that's her problem not yours.
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Today's trivia:
In New Zealand we use the Maori word "koha" to cover a donation made in exchange for hospitality. Traditionally if you were going to a big gathering, the visitors would contribute a "koha" of a basket of food to help the hosts cater for the large numbers of visitors.
This idea has extended into modern times and you will often find a basket marked "koha" at community events where visitors can put a contribution (usually money these days) to thank the hosts for their hospitality.
If your church was in NZ you would probably find the eggs on the stall with a basket marked "koha for eggs" to get around the "eggs for sale" problem.
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If my calculations are right and you have 3 chickens laying an egg a day each, it will take 6 days for this lady to have her eggs. That's a huge amount of your eggs!
I personally would explain that to her and tell her that you prefer to keep it as a gift option and by fulfilling her request you will not be able to give your friend's their gifts. If she doesn't like it, I would print off directions to the local supermarket and say you can get as many as you like there!
It really does annoy me how some people take liberties with others.
I am sorry, I do not know what the legal situation would be regarding selling the eggs. I am sure someone will be able to explain as there is such a wealth of experts here.
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Thanks for your replies! Yes, the stall has various things on it - some priced (the church magazine) and some not - homemade marmalade, homemade cards etc. Its an honesty thing with a box where people put the money. I wouldn't price my eggs but put them on there with the exectation people would donate for them. Just wondering really if the same rules apply as at a garden gate or not.
I think this lady actually thinks she's doing me a favour as I think she sees it that I have all these eggs laying around when she could make use of them - but like this week, my mum is coming to stay and I always give her a large amount to take away, so its not that cut and dry! Sometimes I actually bake and then I have fewer too!
alancane, yes you are right - it would take 6 days to get her the eggs she wants...
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You can sell eggs at the "farm" gate.
The church stall isnt the farm gate, so you could be on shaky legal ground.
Tell the demander you dont have 18 eggs, you dont, and thats taking the micky a bit, even if you did have 18 spare eggs, surely three people getting 6 each is a more reasonable expectation...
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There is one way to get out of this dilemma, a lady down our road had 6 of our chickens, they were semi free range. Anyway, she wanted to make things to sell like chutneys jams and CAKES, when the EHO came to inspect her kitchen, he said to her "oh I see you have chickens, do you use their eggs in your homemade cakes?"
"Yes" she said. "Oh you can't do that" he replied "you have to use commerical eggs as they have been tested for slamonella etc and yours haven't"
So although we know our eggs are better than commercial ones, its a good way to get out of this problem with this greedy woman!
The same lady I mentioned withthe cakes ketp coming here saying that people were buying all their eggs and they hadn't had an egg for ages, so as I had a glut at the time, I gave her 5 dozen sho she could bake loads and freeze them, and a couple of months later I ddi the same, then Brian saw a sign outside for free range eggs for sale!
So I told her that she can't sell to others what she gets from me, and that it wasn't my idea, those eggs were for her, and I've hardly seen her since! :lol:
You've got to be hard with some of these people, they are just greedy!
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I can't believe the audacity of people, what a cheek!
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Keep a couple of eggs back for a month or two and slip them into her box of eggs.
You must know about the curate's egg 1st time veg grower :lol:
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Or is that too evil ;)
(http://pics.myspew.com/var/albums/geek/goodevil.jpg?m=1301361605)
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That is definitely evil - and no more than she deserves for being so greedy. :lol: :lol:
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Ah but then she could tell people that your eggs are c**p and get you a bad reputation! :(
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Easiest thing is to say.....
NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY!
:tongue2: :tongue2: :tongue2:
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Ha ha ha! :D This really made me laugh! :D Cheered me up no end!
Aunt Sally, I'm not sure I could be that evil as to give her bad eggs but what GrannieAnnie says about the cakes is interesting...I wonder if she's aware of that - might be good to point it out to her like you say...and I obviously can't in good conscience encourage her to break the law... ;) ;)
You can sell eggs at the "farm" gate.
The church stall isnt the farm gate, so you could be on shaky legal ground.
I'm aware a church stall isn't a farm gate, but lots of people ask for donations outside their houses for produce and eggs and they aren't farms either, so I was wondering how far the rules went. But at least I know now that its more likely to be an issue.
Yes alancane, it would have been the easiest thing to have said but its not always that easy when your job is to try to be nice to people, however mean or selfish, nearly all of the time! ::)
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I have read it is ok to sell to friends or family (or at the farm gate) but it is illegal for eggs without a producer registration number to be used in the catering industry, so for her to do this SHE is breaking the law.
Not sure if that is of any help, as it doesn't a actually answer your question, but could maybe help you.
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You are right Raven, but if veg grower were to GIVE her the eggs and she then puts them into a cake to sell on, she hasn't BOUGHT them, so I don't think third party selling would count there, likewise if she gives a donation for the eggs, would that count as 'buying' them?
But if veg grower gave her some eggs which she then sells to another person, that is considered third party and like you said she can only do that if she is a registered packing station.
I hate greedy people, I've known a few in my life. Our next door neighbours will take some eggs if I give them away, but they will BUY their eggs from the supermarket, they won't come round here and give me their money, even though my eggs are cheaper than the supermarket battery eggs! They will also accept a meat chicken now and again, but they won't come and buy one! Even though 2 years ago when our big freezer broke down, we gave them at least 4 big carrier bags of turkey and chicken!
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You may be right, the wording in my book is "you do not have to mark eggs sold at your farm gate or delivered by hand to customers, but they cannot be used in the catering industry". I also read online (but i can't find where) that only class A eggs can be used in the catering industry.
I'll get off my soap box now before the thread ends up going on a tangent!
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You may be right, the wording in my book is "you do not have to mark eggs sold at your farm gate or delivered by hand to customers, but they cannot be used in the catering industry". I also read online (but i can't find where) that only class A eggs can be used in the catering industry.
I'll get off my soap box now before the thread ends up going on a tangent!
No Raven, not soapbox at all, we all learn something new every day, and I've learnt a lot from some of the people on here, but also a lot more from some of the professional poultry breeders and rearers we know and also DEFRA guidelines. However DEFRA do say that eggs sold at the farmgate should be marked with a best before date, or a note to say use within 3 weeks of buying or something like that.
Most of the time we don't get enough eggs for ourselves, let alone our customers! :lol: So most of what we sell has been laid that day or the day before, and most of our customers are regulars.
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You can sell eggs at the "farm" gate.
The church stall isnt the farm gate, so you could be on shaky legal ground.
I'm aware a church stall isn't a farm gate, but lots of people ask for donations outside their houses for produce and eggs and they aren't farms either, so I was wondering how far the rules went. But at least I know now that its more likely to be an issue
My assumption was that my garden gate was an acceptable stand in for a farm gate.
The law means* that you can sell eggs from the property they are laid at.
*Not a lawyer
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If anything it just proves to me that 'free' is not always appreciated by some people and generosity is often taken for granted as a right by others, sad really :(
I love the koha lindeggs :D We were brought up to always take a 'minding' or contribution to gatherings or visits and our children do the same, sometimes we end up with 3 or 4 puddings ::) :lol: