Briggs and Stratton 5 hp

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Praxxus

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Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« on: December 28, 2009, 22:02 »
Templar Tiller Professional 500 with a B&S 5 hp engine with details of -
Model : 130202   -   Type : 0576 01   -   Code : 78021307 (or possibly 78021301)


Bought it and got it home 4 weeks ago, it ran ok. Took the throttle cable off the handles to hang it up to oil it because it was stiff. I must have dislodged the single wire that attaches to the back of the linkages as when it was back together it wouldnt start. I thought I put it back together correctly, obviously I didnt ! Put a new plug in (gapped to .030 ") still no joy. Stripped the flywheel off to get to the ponts-breaker (the key was split in 2 but still functioning) they were clean and operational. Put it back together. Got it to fire once but would not run. Squirted some switch cleaner into the carb. It backfired once but would not run.
Any ideas please ?

T A J
(̾●̮̮̃̾̃̾)۶       ̿ ̿ ̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(L M A S)=/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿ ̿ ̿      ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾̃̾)۶

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Gwiz

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 07:26 »
It does sound like the cut out wire is shorting the circuit. Have you tried removing the plug, and laying it on the top of the engine just to see if you are getting a spark?
The little flexible tang of the switch should not be touching anything when the engine runs. You could try removing the wire from the switch and then checking for a spark.
How about the throttle cable? is it back in the right way? I have put them on back to front in the past, so that when on "Start", they are actually on "stop"! an easy, embarrassing mistake to make if a little while has passed from taking the cable off, and then refitting it :blush:

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 10:43 »
Hi Gwiz !

1) Tried spark plug on top of engine = good spark (blue/white) & got a shock aswell.
2) Disconnected single black wire from engine block mount and from throttle linkages = no difference.
3) Throttle cable attatched correctly top and bottom.
4) Reconnected single black wire to engine block mount (1 contact) = no change
5) Reconnected single black wire to linkage (2 contacts) = no change
I was doing all this on my own - so may have done the wrong things ?

What would a 'flexible tang' be ?
What does the lever at bottom left (when viewed from behind) of the engine do as its connected to the 'stop' mechanism ?

How easy is it to upload photos ?
I could do that later - I'm not in a real rush, as the plot is soggy at the moment.

Prax

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 11:58 »
It may take a while to take & upload photos as it is peeing down at the moment !

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Gwiz

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 12:32 »
I'll wait for the photos, it's always easier with them! :)

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 14:51 »
Still raining !

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smud6ie

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 19:00 »
I have just seen some thing in your op that may hold the clue to your problem.
you say the key was split in two,well on  briggs engines a damaged shaft key can upset the timing and they won't start.It is a safety feature to stop the engine if the blades hit an big object .I know your problem did not start after such an event but Its well worth replacing  so you can eliminate it.
BTW, you could still get a spark but at the wrong time.
dave
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 19:57 by smud6ie »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 11:29 »
Cheers Dave - Well spotted !

The key is split on the diagonal length ways and wasn't sure if that was normal.
I've worked on motorcycle engines(singles & twins) from 1984 to 1992 doing the usual - plugs,points,timing,rings,valve springs,gaskets etc.
I am uploading photos later of the areas I've been investigating, including the key, etc.
I have searched the site for B&S 5hp problems - found quite a few posts (Gwiz & Muntjac seem to be 2 of the resident experts), but nobody seems to include diagrams/photos or accurate descriptions of the solution!
Tim
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 11:34 by Praxxus »

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smud6ie

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 14:14 »
I think it is much easier for some who fix things to "fix" them rather than to describe how they did it..or is that just me? :)

If you have a spark,Is the plug wet after a few pulls on the starter rope? if not pour a  cc  of petrol down the plug and see if it fires..If not its most likely a spark problem,either a weak one or one at the wrong time.One of the best diagnostic tools in my armoury is an old "in series timiing light", the ones that were produced in the 60's and 70's and connected between the spark plug and the HT lead,they were too dim to see the timing marks on lots of cars but are exellent to see if there is a spark on small engines.Whilst it is the most commonly used method and adequate for most cases, placing the plug on the engine will tell you if its sparking in the air but not under compression where it require a much  higher voltage to cross the gap.The light however,won't  tell you if its sparking at the right time but on fixed timing engines like B&S,if the key is ok the timing should be.
It may be of interest to other readers,re the timing light,they can be used ,say
if an engine dies each time after a few moment running, you can connect the light and if it keeps flashing until the engine stops completely then its a fuel problem but if the light goes out before it comes to a halt then its an ignition fault.
I don't know if they can be bought new but I often see them at boot sales for a few quid or so.
This is the type but this one is a bit pricey :   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Strobe-timing-light-E-G-Watson-1975-neon-tube_W0QQitemZ130355370393QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item1e59c91999


dave
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 19:01 by smud6ie »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 19:56 »
Hi ya,
My broadband has been out for a few hours this afternoon.
I managed to get out to it between rain showers, and photo'd the areas of interest.
What I did notice was that once the bits of key were put back in the flywheel, then reassembled, it would fire once but not run again. So I took it apart and (referring to your post earlier) found that the flywheel rocks backwards but locks forward, so it fires - then the crankshaft accelerates leaving the flywheel behind losing the timing - I think !
Some new keys have been ordered so I will try them when they get here.
Photos will be in my next post.

Tim

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 20:51 »
pic 1
Throttle at 'fast' position
DSCI0001.JPG
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 21:02 by Praxxus »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 20:51 »
pic 2
throttle at 'stop' position
DSCI0002.JPG
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 21:02 by Praxxus »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 20:52 »
pic 3
magneto
DSCI0004.JPG
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 21:03 by Praxxus »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 20:52 »
pic 4
magneto/flywheel clearance
DSCI0005.JPG
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 21:04 by Praxxus »

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Praxxus

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Re: Briggs and Stratton 5 hp
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2009, 20:53 »
pic 5
The most likely cause - flywheel key or keys as they are now !
DSCI0006.JPG
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 21:05 by Praxxus »



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