Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: Flump on August 12, 2011, 09:21
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would it be unreasonable to ask my neighbour to keep her cockerel in for an extra hour in the mornings so it doesn't wake us and our three children every morning at 7am?we live in a row of houses.
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No not at all,
Most people in built up areas are advised not to have them any way.
Though usually it would be a 7am opening instead of a 5am opening.
Just ask them and see what they say.
If they refuse its possible to do it by force (via council) but that always leads to tensions so you have to judge which you prefer heh.
Lew
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yes,well it used to crow at 4am whether it was in or not so it is an improvement.It's only affects us as neighbours are insomniacs and other is farmworker who goes out at crack of dawn.
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Conversely I think 7am is quite reasonable, considering it could be 4 or 5am in mid summer.
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hhhmm,I wouldn't dream of going round and waking up my neighbours at 4,5 or 7am,so I don't think a bit of consideration is too much to ask.After years of being woken all through the night by babies/toddlers and finally getting them to sleep past 7 only to be woken by crowing ,it is a bit annoying.
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is it a rural part of Leicestershire that you live in or a town? This does make a difference - if a rural village then 7am for a countryside cockerel crowing is perfectly acceptable - my boys start at 4am.
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It is rural but we live in a row of semi's,hence the cockerel can get within a few feet of the house and the sound of birds,cows or sheep are nothing compared to him.But I don't understand why it is acceptable for cockerels to wake people up at 4am because it is in the country?is it because they wake up less people and so it doesn't matter?to be honest,some nights I am awake with pain until the early hours and only dropping off at 3am.I love hens and don't mind cockerels really,and they will all crow at 4 if they aren't kept in the dark at night won't they?it isn't like they are in a small coop either so have to be let out so early,they live in a small palace 10ft by 10ft.Although it seems usual for some of you to be awake at 4 then, or 7,does that mean people who want to sleep longer shouldn't get a choice?
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the sound of a cockerel crowing is part of rural life - we are surrounded by farms so have always had their noise since we moved out here - so much so that at one time I was the only one without a cockerel. I suppose to some people their noise could be an annoyance but I rather like the sound of them and think their crowing at 7am is not unreasonable. Mine was the one who used to start at 4 as he slept in the trees - sadly I no longer have him and now my hens and cockerels get let out between 5.30 and 6am everyday.
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Noise abatement is usually only in place between 10pm and 6am, I think, in the UK. After that reasonable noise can occur.
TBH I would have thought that anyone who works, or has kids to take to school would be up and about by 7am anyway, which is why I think this is a reasonable time to keep cockerels in to.
When I lived in Switzerland construction (pneumatic drills, the lot) start at 7am, and I lived next door to a building renovation for 18 months.
I had a couple of complaints about my cockeres from next door when they started crowing at 5 and 6 am (but I had 14!), so I blacked out the windows so they couldn't see it was light. But they were let out at between 6:30 and 7am, because I leave for work at 7am.
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From Environmental Protection UK site
Night Time Noise Offence
The Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 amended the Noise Act 1996 and enables local authorities in England and Wales to tackle night time noise emitted from dwellings and gardens between the hours of 11.00 pm and 7.00 am. To enforce these powers local authorities must ensure that an environmental health officer takes reasonable steps to investigate complaints about noise emitted from dwellings. If the officer is satisfied that noise exceeds the permitted level, a warning notice may be served on the person responsible. If the warning is ignored, the offender becomes liable for prosecution (which if successful carries a fine of up to £1000.
Please note the times.
The answer is that you can ask, but don't expect much joy (sorry joyfull :lol: )
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::) :lol: :lol:
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I think the equivalent would be-people who don't mind crowing (and I don't mind the occasional few,but this beggar carries on for hours once he's started)feel the same if it were a neighbours dog for instance that started barking at 4am and carried on for hours?
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as has been pointed out though 7am is not unreasonable and is acceptable as far as the anti social behavoir act is concerned.
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Personally I think it's pretty unreasonable to keep cockerels in an urban environment irrespective of whether it's in a country area. Having close neighbours as in a terrace situation I think you would have strong case for complaint. I'd have a word with your neighbour and see if there's any way they could move them further away or dispense with the cockerel which isn't essential unless they want to breed chx.
I expect there's still a legal option of a complaint of nuisance irrespective of the actual Noise Abatement Act night time defined period. However I'd try the friendly approach first to see if an acceptable compromise is possible.
HF
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but what about the people who want to breed and show their birds - surely this shouldn't only be for those with no close neighbours living in the middle of nowhere :unsure:
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but what about the people who want to breed and show their birds - surely this shouldn't only be for those with no close neighbours living in the middle of nowhere :unsure:
They can always get hatching eggs they hardly make any noise at all ::)
HF
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then you have to wait to find out that they all turn out to be cockerels :lol:.
Plus if you show you tend to breed your own so you can breed in the traits you want and then cull or sell/give away those no good for showing or even eat the excess birds.
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then you have to wait to find out that they all turn out to be cockerels :lol:.
If they want to show they should breed pigeons or move to an area where their hobby won't cause a nuisance (which is purely hypothetical incidentally).
HF
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HF, It's too early for the falling down juice surely :lol:
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To me this is the same as moving under Heathrow's flight path and then complaining about the noise from the planes! :wacko:
Surely a cockerel crowing is all part and parcel of rural life? :unsure:
Do you not think you may get used to the noise? Many, many years ago I lived just a few yards from a railway line and while at first the early morning trains woke us up, it didn't take long before we just didn't hear them anymore and slept through them! ::) (and indeed, we now sleep through our cockerel crowing!)
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I think it is flump's lack of sleep because of her pain, that is the problem and that is why she resents the cockerel crowing so much :(
It is a sad situation, but it seems that the neighbours are already trying to control the crowing, if it doesn't start til about 7am, when most people are up and about.
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To me this is the same as moving under Heathrow's flight path and then complaining about the noise from the planes! :wacko:
Surely a cockerel crowing is all part and parcel of rural life? :unsure:
It's not remotely the same.
Even if you live in the countryside there's not the presumption of nuisance from inconsiderate chicken keepers. If you live in a community with close neighbours it's not unreasonable to expect them to limit their activities to ones which don't cause a nuisance to their neighbours. No one is forcing them to keep cockerels, they choose to do so.
I might agree that if you moved next to a chicken breeding business you might reasonably expect to have disturbance from cocks crowing. This isn't the case here flump lives in a residencial built up area in a row of semis not adjacent to a pre-existing chicken farm. However even if you move close to a pre-existing chicken farm you might still have a claim of nuisance up held in court of law.
I live in the country adjacent to a farm which has cockerels which are about 80 metres away from our house and I also have cockerels too and they don't disturb us but I understand that that's not the case with everyone. If I kept chx in an urban situation with neighbours I wouldn't keep cockerels.
Crowing and the Law. Below is an extract from a typical council guideline document. If you google "crowing cocks nuisance" you can find many similar guidelines issued by local councils referenced on the web and I guess this advice has a common source as they are all very similar.
"When investigating complaints of cockerels crowing, the Service must establish whether a Statutory Noise Nuisance is occurring.
In considering whether a Statutory Noise Nuisance exists Environmental Health Officer’s will consider a number of factors including:
1. Nature of the area
Whilst cockerels have been part of the English countryside for generations it is possible that keeping them in built up residential environments may cause a Statutory Noise Nuisance.
2. Time of day
We all know that like dogs, cockerels tend to make noises at any time of the day. However the one trait of a cockerel is the early morning crow and it is more than likely that your cockerel crowing at unsociable times is likely to give rise to a Statutory Noise Nuisance.
3. Duration & Frequency
The length of time and frequency your cockerel crow has to be considered when establishing whether a Statutory Noise Nuisance is occurring. If your cockerels crow for long periods of time, or frequently, it is likely that a Statutory Noise Nuisance is occurring. "
HF
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To me this is the same as moving under Heathrow's flight path and then complaining about the noise from the planes! :wacko:
Surely a cockerel crowing is all part and parcel of rural life? :unsure:
Do you not think you may get used to the noise? Many, many years ago I lived just a few yards from a railway line and while at first the early morning trains woke us up, it didn't take long before we just didn't hear them anymore and slept through them! ::) (and indeed, we now sleep through our cockerel crowing!)
Thank you Hillfooter,I agree.
The fact is,I have always lived in the countryside and never been bothered by cockerels before (this one is so close) and the neighbour moved in after us.We have low flying jets and a train nearby,nothing gets you like this does!
Thank you Mum of Stig for listening to what I was saying.It is also the lack of consideration that bugs me.Said neighbour has only just let the hens out today (8am) and I know this is only because she would have been having a lie in,so there is no reason why it can't be done.She doesn't work.
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If it was me, and the neighbour is approachable, I'd have a quiet word with her and explain that although you don't mind the occasional crowing, because of your present situation, of not sleeping well etc, would it be possible for her not to let the cockerel out until 8am every morning.
What sort of coop are they in? Does it bother you when he is in the coop, or only once he is let out?
If his crow is loud when he's inside and the coop is large and has a window, perhaps she would black out the window? Better for the birds anyway than a window that can stress them out.
If she gets funny, tell her you don't want to report her for noise pollution, but if you did report her to the council, they would make her get rid of it. just ask Jobson336 and some of the others on here that have had to get rid of cockerels near other houses.
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Or how about a compromise? Most people are up by 7am during the week because of kids, jobs etc, so how about asking if she could wait until 8am on sat and sun? I don't know how this suits you? Both sides should be reasonable, and 7am is a fairly reasonable time during the week as, generally, most people are up already.
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It is rural but we live in a row of semi's,hence the cockerel can get within a few feet of the house and the sound of birds,cows or sheep are nothing compared to him.But I don't understand why it is acceptable for cockerels to wake people up at 4am because it is in the country?is it because they wake up less people and so it doesn't matter?to be honest,some nights I am awake with pain until the early hours and only dropping off at 3am.I love hens and don't mind cockerels really,and they will all crow at 4 if they aren't kept in the dark at night won't they?it isn't like they are in a small coop either so have to be let out so early,they live in a small palace 10ft by 10ft.Although it seems usual for some of you to be awake at 4 then, or 7,does that mean people who want to sleep longer shouldn't get a choice?
If you think cockerals are noisy, try living next to 2 donkeys when they start bellowing early doors. It frightens the life out of you until you realise its them. When we had our cockerel Monty, he was a very early riser and would start crowing very early. I apologised to my neighbour who said not to worry as it was a sound of the countryside. In my view, its better than dogs barking, any day of the week. Does your neighbour know that you have a problem sleeping? Perhaps its worth mentioning. Good Luck anyway.
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I apologise - I didn't realise you lived in a row of terrace houses. :mellow: When I think of rural, I think of houses every now and again. :unsure:
You don't say whether you have spoken to the neighbour (unless I've missed that bit too!), I'm sure s/he would prefer you to have a word with them before involving the local authorities. I know I would. I'd like to think that if one of my neighbours (who are not that close by) had a problem with my cockerel, they would come to me first.
Even though our neighbours are not that close, we have blacked out the coop, put in a bit of 'sound proofing' - it was more for our benefit than anyone else's! :happy: as I too have sleepless nights due to pain, I am up every night from approx 12.30/1 - 5am :mad:
As I said before, I can now sleep through the crowing; the noise the guinea fowl make - now that's a different story..... >:(
Hope it gets sorted out soon. ;)
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Ah now guinea fowl! Oh Yes! Our neighbour in our last house in Essex had them, they used to walk up the lane in the early hours sounding like a load of rusty bikes!!! :lol:
Luckily during the week I had to get up at 4.30am !
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We live in a small town/large village and have 1 boy chook, we dont let him out of the coop until after 9am, but if noisy neighbour a few doors away has one of his late night parties that can go on till 3 am............then my boy gets let out at 7am! Not sure how their hangovers cope with him!