[joyfull]

what age are they S & P?

[salt and pepper]

Hi Joyful there about 15 weeks 

[gracie]

All I can say is that my friend and I shared 12 chicks that were hatched at the same time. Her pet supplier told her layers was fine as they didn't have growers. I managed to find growers. Must admit mine free range and hers don't but mine are much bigger chickens but not fat in anyway. Whether this is down to both things or a combination of both I would advise a bag of growers next.

[MellowYellow]

Just got home from my local farm supplier and he doesn't sell growers, just chick crumb and layers! 

Came home empty handed to decide whether to shop around or to take a chance on the layers

Oh dear.....................................

[hillfooter]

Hi MellowYellow,

Normally you switch from Crumbs to Growers at 5 weeks and Growers to layers at 16 weeks for hybrids or 19 weeks for pure breeds.  I agree with Lindeggs on her timing advice here.

Basically Layers contains 4% calcium needed for good eggshell quality.  Growers doesn't contain much calcium so won't build up their reserves prior to lay which can lead to problems once they do start.  There's less chance of soft eggs or thin egg shells if you do this than leave it till laying actually starts.  Chickens store calcium in bone called medullary bone in the bone marrow cavities which easily gives up its calcium.  Failure to build up these calcium reserves at lay can cause the calcium to be provided from the skeleton causing growth and other problems.  Providing calcium too early in their diet will result in the excess being removed by their kidneys and can lead to kidney damage and kidney stones which isn't evident until later life.

It's obviously much better to switch to growers at the correct time but really you've passed that point now so whatever effect that will be a done deal now.  At 13 weeks your birds are a little young but I suspect that rather than waste a lot of growers feed I'd just move them to layers now.  Actually I don't think this would be too risky I've raised pure breed chx at 12 weeks onwards on layers without ill effects and in fact one lived to be 10years old so I can't think you'd go far wrong.  I also doubt the size difference reported by a previous post could have been down to the difference between growers and layers because they aren't that much different.  However don't give them extra oystershell as well.  Just use insoluable grit (crushed granite).  

The main difference between Growers & Layers is calcium content (0.8% vs 4% typically)and growers has about 15% more energy.  If you want to go to the bother you can do as you have been advised and mix a little poultry corn (say 25%) with layers for 3 weeks or so to get a better match before feeding excusively on layers.  Make any changes to feed gradually by mixing the new with the old in increasing proportions over a two week changeover.  As long as the corn doesn't also contain vegatable protein such as split peas or soya it won't be high in protein so won't cause them to put on fat (protein of 15% or so won't hurt).  

An alternative strategy would be to use growers and supplement limestone flour or fine (2mm or so) crushed oystershell from 16 weeks to use it up.  You would need to add about 3% by weight to bring the total Ca upto 3.5% or so.   You will only get Growers in 20kg sacks to special order as feed merchants don't stock or won't split a bag to sell in smaller quantities as they will with layers.  This is because it only has a short period use, around 11 weeks in a chx life.

HF

Hope this helps.

[MellowYellow]

Thanks hillfooter   

I think I'll buy the layers and introduce it gradually over the next week or so.

I'm a novice at rearing chicks and was working on the assumption that my girls would reach POL at the end of September/early October at around 20 weeks old.

It was only when I read on here a couple of days ago that hybrids reach POL earllier that I began to realise I'd got it wrong 

I did't choose Hybrids for their laying ratio, they were part of a living eggs scheme that my school was running and I was the person who looked after the incubating eggs and brought the chicks home at the weekend to look after them.  When it came to sending them back to the company they said I could keep some if I wanted.  Me and my family couldn't resist!  We could only take the girls as I live in a residential street and I don't think my neighbours would have been happy with 5 cockerels as well.  We have kept chickens before but they were bought POL so life was a lot easier.

Thanks again to everyone for the invaluable advice.      

[MellowYellow]

I'm trying to introduce the layers gradually to their feed but they leave the chick crumb and only eat the layers!!! 

Now they only eat the chick crumb when absolutely all the layers, greens, berries and anything else in the garden (if they are out) has gone!

Is that normal      

[hillfooter]

I'm trying to introduce the layers gradually to their feed but they leave the chick crumb and only eat the layers!!! 

Now they only eat the chick crumb when absolutely all the layers, greens, berries and anything else in the garden (if they are out) has gone!

Is that normal      

Normal.  If there's a choice they select the item they prefer which is why you shouldn't mix treats with their staple diet.  I just made the mistake of tipping a couple of handfuls of poultry corn in their layers as it was just the dreggs leftover and the little b***ers have chucked out all the pellets to get the corn.

In your case if they are eating it there's nothing to worry about just stop the crumbs.  They obviously don't need to be weaned over.
HF

[MellowYellow]

Thanks HF.