[poultrygeist]

As someone who has never seen, let alone visited, an abbatoir, I am following this thread with interest and am still undecided on the 'best' method but I think if done to the letter halal sounds a far more respectful way of killing.

As I say, I've not seen it done and it may not always be adhered to for commercial or other reasons.

I've no religious or cultural prejudice. I just like to think my meat is not produced with much pain and suffering. Probably a VERY idealistic wish.  :?

Rob

[fluffybunny]

I worked in a halal sheep slaughterhouse while I did my Meat Inspection training - there it was almost identical to a 'normal' slaughterhouse except it had to be a priest doing the slaughter - the animals were still housed and queued in the normal manner and were still stunned electrically before bleeding.  There is probably a lot of variation around as to what constitutes halal...I reckon a lot of curry houses use halal meat without necessarily saying so as well.  

My personal experience of slaughterhouses is that none of them - ranging from large international export companies, through to a small family run unit doing about 10 cows, and 100 or so sheep and pigs a day, have been anywhere as bad as I had been led to believe beforehand.  I am fortunate that the family slaughterhouse is very close to where I live so I am able to purchase meat which I know has been reared and killed locally and as humanely as it is possible to do so.

[dereklane]

"My personal experience of slaughterhouses is that none of them - ranging from large international export companies, through to a small family run unit doing about 10 cows, and 100 or so sheep and pigs a day, have been anywhere as bad as I had been led to believe beforehand."

I guess that all depends on how bad you expected it to be, and what constitutes bad for you... of course, there are variations also between countries, and abbatoirs.

But otherwise, thanks for the point and the informed opinion - as you say, what constitutes halal may vary depending on how close or far from the original concept they are prepared to 'bend' their convictions. I am surprised you say they stunned them first - by my understanding a big part of halal was that they must be conscious prior to slaughter. But, it doesn't surprise me. The main focus of slaughterhouses is speed of slaughter vs quality of meat (both related to economic benefits for the slaughterhouse), not compassion or conviction, unless that translates to profit too, (which it doesn't) ...

The other things, of course, which contributes to stress, is the journey from the farm to the slaughterhouse, and the time spent there prior to slaughter, and how 'comfortable' that is for them. Its probably nearly impossible to get that period completely comfortable for the animal, since familiarity is the key to comfort and a stress free environment for such animals. A cow version of The Ritz still wouldn't be as good as their own patch of land...

In Oz, so long as they're registered, you can still get your animals slaughtered on the farm (I have a feeling this might be logistical as much as anything, because I think the rules are that you can still only get it done for personal use. So you can't sell from the farm direct to the local butcher, for example). I'm not sure the rules here, but the idea of local slaughter on the farm, in the animal's familiar environment would certainly be a more compassionate means of slaughter (done professionally), and would probably draw higher prices if the importance of the animal's welfare prior to slaughter were made known (not to mention meat quality).

cheers,

Derek

[fluffybunny]

I guess that all depends on how bad you expected it to be, and what constitutes bad for you... of course, there are variations also between countries, and abbatoirs.

Maybe it would give you a bit of context if I explained that I was actually a vegetarian before I started my meat inspection training (I had to do this as part of my degree), and I now eat meat again as I discovered that it was nowhere near as bad as I had been led to believe.

[Ruby Red]

I worked in a halal sheep slaughterhouse while I did my Meat Inspection training - there it was almost identical to a 'normal' slaughterhouse except it had to be a priest doing the slaughter - the animals were still housed and queued in the normal manner and were still stunned electrically before bleeding.  There is probably a lot of variation around as to what constitutes halal...I reckon a lot of curry houses use halal meat without necessarily saying so as well.  

My personal experience of slaughterhouses is that none of them - ranging from large international export companies, through to a small family run unit doing about 10 cows, and 100 or so sheep and pigs a day, have been anywhere as bad as I had been led to believe beforehand.  I am fortunate that the family slaughterhouse is very close to where I live so I am able to purchase meat which I know has been reared and killed locally and as humanely as it is possible to do so.

Well this totally turns the whole thing on its head doesnt it. I suppose in large government inspected premises they would HAVE to be stunned first. Otherwise it surely would be deemed illegal in this country cruelty to animals and all that. Thoiugh I bet in other local back street butchers they carry it out without.

[dereklane]

cheers fluffybunny.

And yet, so many (myself included) are seriously challenged by visiting abbatoirs to become vegetarians after the fact. Its very obviously a matter of opinion (or perhaps, less likely, a matter of choice of abbatoirs), but also obviously an aside to the original argument (ie, is halal 'barbaric' compared to the stun and bleed approach we *now* use).

What you've established is that in many cases it's no different (aside from the prayer), so no reason to get up in arms about halal meat at the supermarket. The traditional method of halal butchering (essentially what I was discussing, although I didn't realise how much they would bend these rules for the sake of the commercial market) is still existent, and the debate over its 'barbarity' perhaps still mistaken, on the basis of prejudice rather than reason.

"I suppose in large government inspected premises they would HAVE to be stunned first."

No, as far as I am aware, Britain allows legally the traditional halal approach (legislatively, it is actually, up until recently, a fairly accepting place with regard to other cultures). As I suggested earlier, the option to stun and bleed speeds up the process in the abbatoirs, so is quite obviously economic.

cheers,

Derek