Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => Chicken Chat => Topic started by: mumofstig on November 20, 2012, 09:19
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what do you think
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9687529/Chicken-owning-fad-lauded-by-Jamie-Oliver-hurting-birds.html
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They may well have a point with some keepers who think it is trendy to keep chooks with absolutely no knowledge of their needs.
However if they were to read this sites threads and how we worry and fret but also seek out answers when there is a problem they may take a different view.
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There is a heck of a lot of truth in that report - the amount of people that come on here saying they thought keeping chickens would be easy.
We always tell people to find a poultry friendly vet before getting hens, we always tell them to worm regularly, we tell them to take their birds to the vet when they are ill - we can only advise what an illness may be but we are not vets, we keep banging on about not feeding kitchen waste to their birds but are often ignored, we try to advise about their housing so that it should be ideal for their birds, we advise about the size of the runs - the majority of mass produced ones are no where near big enough.
We also advise people to go on a dispatching course if they don't know how to do the deed or take the bird to a vets to be euthanized if they feel they really cant do it themselves.
We always tell people who are contemplating getting birds to read up as much as possible about their care before they make any purchases - I spent a couple of years reading up on hens even though I had experience of keeping ducks in the past.
However as for vaccinating then I will take issue with the report - in order for most backyard keepers to vaccinate their birds they would have to have the bird from day old also for those that do hatch a few a year then the batches of the different vaccines should come in quantities for 6 chicks not 500 or 1000.
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The problem is not just confined to chickens but most other animals. The amount of rabbits, guinea pigs, cats/kittens and dogs/puppies you see advertised for rehoming "nothing wrong with this ........... , but my children are allergic/my other dog does not like it/my work hours have changed". Obviously there will be genuine cases but most have just not realised the commitment involved in owning an animal.
You just have to look at how many nearly new Eglu pet housing there is on the market to see there is a major problem.
As joyfull also said, I spent a couple of years reading and researching before getting my birds. I still don't know enough but know that there is help on here and of course our local poultry friendly vet as advised on here.
I second what joyfull said about the vaccines. If they want to prevent the spread of infections they should make the vaccines available in small quantities for the increasing number of backyard poultry keepers.
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My personal gripe with domestic chicken keeping is the coops and runs that are sold claiming to house too many for the space. We forum readers are a tiny aware minority.
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i have to agree with what ANHBUC said. It is not just chickens but most animals that so many get without preparation or suitable facilities.
We see the people here asking about poultry which is great as always better that people ask than don't but a lot seem to leap in without looking into it first which is when problems arise.
Although I agree with a lot of the article, Joy's point about vaccination is valid and there were a couple of other things that were not balanced. For instance it is not just hobbyists that wouldn't take a chicken to the vets, in fact I think they are the only ones who would. I would be gobsmacked is 40% of commercial keepers/breeders took ill chickens to the vet!
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The other problem is that there really isn't enough poultry vets. :mad:
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when I first started keeping poultry here in Lincolnshire my vets where I take my dogs had no experience with poultry. They made me an appointment to see the vet who had been on an exotics pets course. I went armed with loads of info on what I thought the problem was.
Now they have a specialist poultry vet who deals with the local poultry farms. She cannot see our birds for fear of cross infections, however she has trained up several of the other vets and is always on the end of the phone for problems.
You need to nag your local vets to get them to think about training in poultry, explain to them just how quickly this hobby is growing and what a lot of customers they are losing (money usually talks ::))
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I agree with a lot written in the article and on this thread.
I too spent a lot of time doing lots of research; I like to do things properly. I can be a bit of a worrier.
I get my hens from a hobbiest breeder who is also a vets assistant and she does chicken keepers courses, medical advice and has shown me how to cull.
All her hens are fully vaccinated too.
I asked at a new vets near us if the vet knew anything about hens but he didn't. He only looked about 15, so it will be an hours trip back to the breeder for medical advice.
I do think though that even after reading and researching there is a lot to be said for practical experience and just doing it.
We have learned so much in the time we have had the girls by watching them and reading this forum.
I also think that there is an element of the potato council in the article, eg leave it to the profesionals.
I know that some farmers can be more cavelier in their approach to feeding and keeping hens than the amateur enthusiast.
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65 chicken keepers out of approx 500,000 doesnt necessarily provide an acurate snapshot of the problems that may or may not arise with keeping chickens.
It would have been better reported if a reasonable number of keepers were asked.
Like with all animals though, research should be done in length before taking the plunge and sadly there will always be a number of people who dont.
This isnt always down to inexperienced keepers.
Last week i went to one of my local feed suppliers (the nearest one due to it being rush hour on friday afternoon) and noticed (disappointingly) they have started to sell coops.
I know they are trying to provide "the whole package" but i cant somehow wonder if they have lost sight of why they started the business in the first place.
The coops i saw were the cheap ones, but i understand that some people can only budget for that.
What really disappointed me, and i guess they were going by DEFRA's guidelines, but they were stating the coops were suitable for 6 large birds or 8 smaller birds.
Now these coops were 30-40% smaller than my smallest coop and there is no way you would get 6 large birds in my small coop even at a squeeze, let alone in one that is 30-40% smaller.
Maybe the inexperienced keepers that provided the results for this report had taken advice from someone who was putting their business needs / greeds before the needs of the hens and new owners.
(Please dont shoot me down in flames as i know not all businesses are run like this, just a bit disappointed with my local one at the moment)
Lesson learnt: I do know that next time i wont be leaving it until friday afternoon to buy feed and perhaps its worth driving a few extra miles
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It took me a long time of contemplating and working out whether I was able to care for them properly before getting some chickens. I was brought up on a farm and knew about chickens e.g. knew how to recognize a broody a moulting and a sick chicken. Even with this basic knowledge it took a lot of consideration whether to keep them or not. My farming childhood taught me one VERY important fact and that is:- The animal's welfare come first and foremost. They depend on you to keep them sheltered, fed, healthy and safe from predators. That is the basics of keeping any animal. So on a cold miserable wet morning when you are snug in your bed, you HAVE to get up and let the chickens out and make sure they have clean water and fresh feed. When it's snowing with a howling wind, you HAVE to go out and make sure your chickens have defrosted water and shelter from the gales. When you have a sick chicken, you HAVE to take the day off work to take her to the vet. If you can't afford the vet. bill, go without something yourself.
If you are unable to to all of the above, don't have them.
So the article is true of some people, but not too many, I hope.
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If you are unable to to all of the above, don't have them.
Correction: If you are unable to do any of the above, don't have them.
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hey
This article is kinda true, but i read and read, for about 5/6 months - constantly (Kind of obsessed with reading, hence the fact i was on this forum, before i signed up n commented)
The comments in the article, seem very one sided though and that's unfair to tar us all with the same brush
Craig
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One other small point, you go back 30 / 40 years and more it was quite common for for people to have small flocks in their back garden for eggs / meat. My grandparents did, as did many other older people I have spoken to.
I do appreciate we live in a different world now and there are rules & regulations to adhere to these days however I did find parts of the article verging on being patronising and agree with the comment above by Mrs Ball about 'leaving it to the experts' bit.
Let us not forget the cruelty & misery that millions of chickens that have suffered & still do suffer, at the hands of the 'experts' and their mass production methods.
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The list of celebrities in the article i believe support the British Hen Welfare Trust.
If you were an ex-battery hen would you prefer to be in,
A The care of a possibly less than perfect chicken keeper.
or
B A chicken and mushroom pie.
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My own preference would always be whatever causes the least distress.
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I read the article, but I felt a little offended that they were genarlising chicken keeping and those who keep chickens...
It seemed to be telling me I was only keeping chicken to follow as fashionable trend set by celebrities and that I was being irresponsible by doing so... etc... etc...
It says they are to be treated differently to other pets as they are a farmed animal? But in what way would you actually treat them differently?
1 - When the are sick you seek them treatment.
2 - You provide them with the require accomodation.
3 - You tend to them at the required schedule.
4 - You feed them the required food.
5 - You clean them out when necessary.
6 - 7 - 8 etc etc
I assume they are talking about the spreading of disease to commercial flocks, but that goes back to point 1 regarding seeking treatment when ill (as you would for any animal...?)
I find the article is very generlised, it drops in some big name diseases and doesn't really seem to explain or substanciate it's claims.
I've kept chickens for 4 years now.... I did research them before commiting blah.. blah... blah... they are my pets and I'm attached to them, each has their own personality - I hope I am doing well by them...
Hannah :)
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sadly too many people get chickens under the myth that they are easy and all you have to do is feed them on scraps, and know nothing about the health problems. We see these problems all too often on here and the bad posts tend to stand out far more than the nice happy posts.