Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Eating and Drinking => Homebrew => Topic started by: Growster... on September 15, 2012, 17:02
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Got an interesting project going at the moment...
It's been pretty difficult to get hold of some Calvados round here, as only the big stores seem to stock it, and the off-licences are in the town and not close by, so we bit the bullet on a whim, and I went to the Maidstone Wine Making Centre in Hardy Street(recommended), and bought a kit to make 30 bottles of vodka...
The plan is to make it with apple juice, and so far, it's romping away, which is not surprising, as the yeast packet weighed several ounces, and the nutrient package was nearly half a pound, so we should really expect some action!
For the record, I used 18 litres of apple juice, with an O.G. of around 1.045, and boiled up 5 kg of sugar to add to it.
The recommended amount of sugar for 23 litres is 7.8 kg, and I had to search the net to get an idea of what the apple would provide in the way of O.G., before the calculation came out at the figure above.
The total mix has (had) an O.G. of 1.056, which actually seems a bit low, as they expect the resulting brew to have an alcohol content of 21%!
Admittedly, I have over-stretched the total quantity by a litre, although we were very strict on the amount of water we used to dissolve all that sugar, so the 'bulk', of the sugar is probably why that happened, or the litre cartons of apple juice were slightly over in each case.
Has anyone any views on how the O.G. will attain the alcohol content at all? I'm slightly mystified, and probably not seeing the obvious! It is supposed to get down to total dryness at between 0.980 - .990, in three weeks.
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Wow! That sounds great Growster. :tongue2: I had no idea you could make the stronger stuff or even that they were there. Just fired off an email to ask for a pricelist.
Mags :)
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An SG/OG of 1.056 will give about 7.5-8% alcohol.
To get 21% area you need 1.150.
You are a long way off.
Did you make a measurement of the SG/OG ?
The above assumes that it ferments out to 1.000, could go to 0.996. Difference is so small it is not worth considering.
By the way you will get a strong Apple Wine, not Calvados.
21% is not a spirit, as it is a strong wine it may also take well over a year to be drinkable, as in 3+ years.
Quick check: You need a total of 9.2Kg sugar in 23 litre's, assuming the apple adds what you say then 7.8Kg sounds about right.
Assumption is that you read the hydrometer wrong and took 1.150 to be 1.050.
Did the pack specify the yeast variety ?
You may need luck to get it to ferment out.
Best I know of is to add say 2/3 of the sugar, get it going them when it slows add a bit more, then repeat several times until all the sugar is used. This seems to be the best way to getting a high alcohol level.
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Calvados was a really exotic drink when I was a child: Dad used to get some occasionally from sailors over from France.
It certainly jazzes up an apple crumble :D
Perhaps Growster is going to (illegally of course) distil his apple wine to create something stronger......
Or freeze it of course and take out the ice :unsure:
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Calvados ..
..is a lovely apple brandy. It would be great to think you might achieve an end product similar in flavour without any recourse to distillation. :D
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That sounds great never used one of those kits and not sure if it will work .Many years ago I tried to make a strong wine and used to make a sugar fruit syrup to feed the fermenting wine It took some months as it would get to the stage of adding a few table spoonfulls every few weeks There is a danger of adding to much sugar too soon and the yeast stopping
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Not in the league of calvados, but when we lived in Essex, I bought 2 kits. One was for a vodka 'tastealike' the other one was a cherry brandy sort.
They were lovely, especially the cherry brandy one!
The vodka one was strange as it had charcoal or something that you put in the mix, which turned the whole thing black, but as the days went by, it turner ever clearer! Don't know if they still do them!
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Those are the numbers I was working to SG6, thanks, and I'd arrived at the same conclusion too!
The instructions are here: -
http://www.dikom.nl/gebruiksaanwijzingen/postorder/eng/vinlandvodkakitENG.pdf,
...and my question was, if the starting S.G was 1.056, how has this turned up with 5kg of sugar and 18 litres of apple juice in the mix! Just checked again and the hydrometer says 1.046! I reckon the apple juice may be the odd one here, as although I researched the values, and checked the actual stuff I used, it was the magic figure of around 1.050 which was the same all round!
Of course it isn't the real thing, that's obvious, but if it approaches the quality of a dry Merrydown, which used to be made near here, that will be fine by us!
They don't mention the O.G in the instructions, which may be something to ponder...
I agree with you, that if there is good strength inthe fermentation later on, then I'll add more sugar, or perhaps glucose.
Thanks for your observations and points anyway!
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Wow! That sounds great Growster. :tongue2: I had no idea you could make the stronger stuff or even that they were there. Just fired off an email to ask for a pricelist.
Mags :)
Goferit Moggie!
Hardy St is just behind the prison, off the North East corner, half way up the hill. They really do keep a huge amount of stock, and it's always a bit chaotic there, depending who serves you...!
The kit we're trying is as the link in the post to SG6!
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Calvados was a really exotic drink when I was a child: Dad used to get some occasionally from sailors over from France.
It certainly jazzes up an apple crumble :D
Perhaps Growster is going to (illegally of course) distil his apple wine to create something stronger......
Or freeze it of course and take out the ice :unsure:
KC! Wash your little mouth out with soap!
Actually, the poteen method was tried out a few years ago (many in fact), and it wasn't really worth the effort. They do sell stills at MWMC (apparently legally), but we don't really want to consider liver damage at our time of life, and prefer just a quaffing plonk to keep the conversation going!
The Calvados theme comes into it's own about now, as we still have a few Lord Lambournes (been a bad crop this year), and they really are a treat with a couple of measures of apple brandy...
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Calvados ..
..is a lovely apple brandy. It would be great to think you might achieve an end product similar in flavour without any recourse to distillation. :D
It truly is Arugula!
The best we ever had was direct from a farm in Normandy, and at £36.00 a bottle, (back in 1995) which was slightly eye-watering, it was the smoothest we'd ever had!
I'll try and dig out the name of the farm - it's well known locally down there!
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"Or freeze it of course and take out the ice "
She hasn't been anywhere near us KC...;0)
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That sounds great never used one of those kits and not sure if it will work .Many years ago I tried to make a strong wine and used to make a sugar fruit syrup to feed the fermenting wine It took some months as it would get to the stage of adding a few table spoonfulls every few weeks There is a danger of adding to much sugar too soon and the yeast stopping
Know what you mean Ilan!
I'm amazed at the diversity and strength of yeasts these days. Back then we only ever had Yeast 67, which was pretty hit and miss...
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Not in the league of calvados, but when we lived in Essex, I bought 2 kits. One was for a vodka 'tastealike' the other one was a cherry brandy sort.
They were lovely, especially the cherry brandy one!
The vodka one was strange as it had charcoal or something that you put in the mix, which turned the whole thing black, but as the days went by, it turner ever clearer! Don't know if they still do them!
That Vodka one sounds the same as the one we have Grannie! The charcoal is the fining element (see instructions on SG6 post's reply)!
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Update - just a minute ago!
I think I have hit on the quandary with the O.G. reading SG6 and all!
Looking at the fermenter, the sugar is forming a 'syrup' layer about two and a half inches thick at the bottom!
It was all totally dissolved when we put it all together, but this explains why the reading was so low at 1.056!
The fermentation is going very quickly, so I will wait and stir it in a week or so, to get it all working, but slowly!
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Gervins yeast GV6 is specified as being able to attain 21% alcohol, if there is sufficent nutrient. Getting to 21% is a bit of a black art however. Also not sure sure how fermenting a wine to that strength will actually affect to final taste, I would guess that much of the apple flavour gets destroyed, will agree that the result may need a couple of years to become drinkable.
A good starter of GV6, tub of nutrient, some tannin (teabag?) and you shouldn't need a kit. Not sure how violent GV6 is during fermentation.
Possibly would have been better to have put 2/3 of the sugar in then added to remainder slowly afterwards. If there is too much sugar or the fermentation stops you will have a sweet wine, which you may not want. It simply guards a little against this.
Was the apple juice from a supermarket? Wondering if it has preservatives in it that could hinder the yeast.
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Gervins yeast GV6 is specified as being able to attain 21% alcohol, if there is sufficent nutrient. Getting to 21% is a bit of a black art however. Also not sure sure how fermenting a wine to that strength will actually affect to final taste, I would guess that much of the apple flavour gets destroyed, will agree that the result may need a couple of years to become drinkable.
A good starter of GV6, tub of nutrient, some tannin (teabag?) and you shouldn't need a kit. Not sure how violent GV6 is during fermentation.
Possibly would have been better to have put 2/3 of the sugar in then added to remainder slowly afterwards. If there is too much sugar or the fermentation stops you will have a sweet wine, which you may not want. It simply guards a little against this.
Interesting points you make, Annie, thank you.
Because I've discovered that the sugar has reverted to a syrup, low down in the fermenter, and it is fermenting well - as quick as I've ever heard one go actually, I agree that there may be the tendency to choke the yeast later on.
However, yeast appears (can't be justified), to have the strength to do the job, and the nutrient was a huge pack, (didn't weigh it unfortunately) so I'll wait and see!
Not worried at the moment; I've made so many variations of wines over the years, and saved them one way or another, this is a great challenge, and who knows, it could be better than we thought!
Glasses are always half-full here!
;0)
Was the apple juice from a supermarket? Wondering if it has preservatives in it that could hinder the yeast.
Yes, and like nearly all apple juices from Twongos, it had no preservative! We always check to see if there's any sulphite or worse, lurking in the list!
Edit to fix quoted text.
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Oops, GV4 is the 21% yeast, GV6 is 18%.
Just checked the varities I have in the fridge.
Must learn to read, the GV4 says: GV4(26), I keep reading the 6 at the end and mixing them up.
Found some odd occurances/effects with GV6. For maintaining the apple flavour and aroma consider the late addition of fruit although it complicates things. Half tried it by fermenting normally with 50% of the fruit, added the remaining 50% towards the end. Being around the 18% mark I have to wait for the result. Been waiting 2+ years for it to mature. :ohmy:
GV6 in the must will sit quietly looking as if not much is happening, if you stir it then you get as much foam as liquid. Made 1 gallon in a 2 gallon bucket, the foam almost came over the top of the bucket when stirred. Any agitation should be approached carefully.
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These high alcohol wines are one of the most difficult to make If you dont use enough fruit it will taste "hot" and thin often very acid If you try and ferment them out fast you will loose all the nice bouquet , most commercilal wines are now cold fermented for this reason . The best trick you can play is to make a "normal wine " then add some glycerine and a few drops of ginger and many people will think they are drinking high alcohol wines ::)
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Thanks Ilan, that's an interesting point you make again!
I was surprised to see the 'syrup' (see previous), but that seems to have dissipated, and we now have a regular bubble going, which is encouraging.
I reckon that apple juice in the mix - as I mentioned, at 18 litres, should bring some sort of flavour to the result, but of course, I'll have to wait and see!
The cold fermenting procedure you mention is used here, and after day four, we moved it to warmer climes (today actually)!
Still going strong!
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Oops, GV4 is the 21% yeast, GV6 is 18%.
Just checked the varities I have in the fridge.
Must learn to read, the GV4 says: GV4(26), I keep reading the 6 at the end and mixing them up.
Found some odd occurances/effects with GV6. For maintaining the apple flavour and aroma consider the late addition of fruit although it complicates things. Half tried it by fermenting normally with 50% of the fruit, added the remaining 50% towards the end. Being around the 18% mark I have to wait for the result. Been waiting 2+ years for it to mature. :ohmy:
GV6 in the must will sit quietly looking as if not much is happening, if you stir it then you get as much foam as liquid. Made 1 gallon in a 2 gallon bucket, the foam almost came over the top of the bucket when stirred. Any agitation should be approached carefully.
Is this still going on Annie?
I'm interested to know what's occurring here!
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Whilst I have no conection. a visit to burrow hill cider Just google it they do a 20% pomona which tastes great and should be do able ::) note the use and importance of oak in these brews Incidently burrow hill make some of the better and cheaper craft ciders around and is worth a visit tho the stills are behind plate glass :( but they will give tasters )
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Like that idea, Ilan!
When on holiday several years ago, we went round Hancock's Cider Farm down your way, and just loved the higgledy-piggledy way they operated...
Always rated their cider, but it used to change every year - maybe still does!
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Result - so far!
Stopped it at 0.994, and definitely there with the apple flavour, and of course, the strength.
I'm not sure about using the charcoal yet, as I want to see if the apple strength is retained with as little addition of anything as possible. I know the charcoal is inert, but if it's not needed with ordinary finings doing the job, then I'll leave it out.
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Update - having chucked in the charcoal as I felt that they wouldn't have put it in the kit if it didn't contributr to the process, and presumed it was there alleviate the nutrient/yeast tone, it all began to settle quite quickly.
I added the finings a few days ago, and today, there is a very clear top half to the container, which is slightly grey/yellow (charcoal?), so I'm waiting a few more days to see how it works out.
Reading on their website, it seems that the charcoal does quite a lot more in refining the brew, so we'll see won't we!
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Tried some today, and pretty good, although very young of course.
The full five gallons have settled to about 95% clarity, and racking was easy to get the first bottle out for tasting, and enlightenment!
Definitely worth persevering with after-care, and hopefully, this will be an experiment with some clout, as it cost about £38.00 to make about 32 bottles, so perhaps it's a good way to overcome frugality, and have a few tinctures into the bargain!
It's taken a month from today to get here, which seems to back up the kit's blurb.
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Hi Growster
Calvados my favourite!
You mentioned the best bottle you had was from Normandy. I know Calvados is a department in the Lower Normandy region so this is a long shot but was it Calvados Morin by any chance? http://www.kysela.com/normandie/morin.htm (http://www.kysela.com/normandie/morin.htm)
I once bought a bottle of this from France and it seems to fit your description quite well.
We, (my wife and myself) are now T total but still enjoy cooking with alcohol. I always have a bottle of Calvados in the pantry for when we cook Poulet Vallée d'Auge, (Chicken in a Calvados Cream Sauce). Recipe here (http://www.forloveofthetable.com/2011/10/poulet-vallee-dauge-chicken-with.html) for anyone who would like to try it. Be careful when you flambé, burning off the alcohol as the flames in the pan can go quite high!
Growster it sounds fun what you are doing and I look forward to you posting the end results, good luck!
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It was this one, BainsK8!
http://www.coeur-de-lion.com/visite_domaine.php?lang=gb
I think it cost about £35.00, but cannot really remember, other than that it was pretty good stuff!
And some brand (cannot recall which one) from here: -
http://www.calvados-boulard.com/mag/en/page-129700.htm
...was exceptional as well!
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The charcoal is in the pack to remove any off flavours when you are making Vodka, so it will have reduced the apple flavour a bit. That might not be a bad thing as not all of the flavour passes over in the still when you make Calvados.
Another really good option is to buy a Turbo yeast from the same shop! which ferments out in 2 days!!! at 21% Alcohol.
Then they also sell little bottles of essence which you add to your "Vodka" (or real Vodka if you like.) to emulate different spirits. Some are better than others but it's great fun finding out which ones you like! :D
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The charcoal is in the pack to remove any off flavours when you are making Vodka, so it will have reduced the apple flavour a bit. That might not be a bad thing as not all of the flavour passes over in the still when you make Calvados.
Another really good option is to buy a Turbo yeast from the same shop! which ferments out in 2 days!!! at 21% Alcohol.
Then they also sell little bottles of essence which you add to your "Vodka" (or real Vodka if you like.) to emulate different spirits. Some are better than others but it's great fun finding out which ones you like! :D
You obviously know the place Lawrence! She's great fun isn't she!
I bought some of that Turbo yeast last week (Blue pack), and it really does fire off in all directions - still going fast actually!
I'm possibly going to try and imcrease the sugar as well, depending on the way it gets below - say - 0.990!
I've got a Calvados bottle from the list you mention, and may use it as a back-up, but at £1.75 a pop, I'd need quite a few for the real thing, so may pass on that!
What's the gin like?