Wolseley Merry Tiller help.

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aardvark

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Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« on: January 23, 2011, 14:04 »
Hi,

I am new to the forum (found you when looking for possible solutions).

We (my wife and I) took on an allomtent just over a year ago in Sheffield - and there was an old Woseley Titan Merry Tiller (Briggs and Stratton 5HP) in the shed.

We only worked on a couple of the beds last year and this year would like to clear it all and get it growing :).

The problem I am having is I cannot get the Tiller to work. I have found the manual on line (forwarded to this site to add to the manual list). So I know I am following the correct start procedures.

The problem seems to be that it isn't fireing - I have changed the spark plug, but still no joy - I have even tried the solution of removing the pull starter and using a 22mm socket on my 18volt drill to start it (can hear the piston moving up and down, just not firing - even tried easy start in the spark plug hole.)

The other issue is I know nothing about engines - if it doesn't have a keyboard I am lost!.

Anybody have any solutions?  I would like to try and get it started myself as the cost of servicing doesn't seem much cheaper than my car (excluding parts) and also the sense of achieving it would be great.

The patent number is 714394 and seial number is T127371 - both of these are on a black plate at the back / side of the tiller.

Any advice greatfully received.

Cheers

Aardvark.

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Gwiz

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2011, 16:39 »
Sounds to me like a points problem.
There have been quite a few posts before about repairing the points, also carb blockages and so on. If you put briggs points into the search function, I'm sure you'll find a solution, if not sing out and I'll lead you through it. :)

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hayter

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 18:49 »
Hi

Have you tried looking on youtube , lots of help with briggs and stratton engines .

You will need to take the flywheel off and clean or renew the points easy job to do

Dave ::)

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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 16:58 »
Thank Gwiz and Hayter,

I have had a look at youtube for some examples so will get the tiller down to the house this week and have a play.

Hopefully won't end up with too many spare pieces after I have put it back together  ;).

Will let you know how I get on!

Cheers

Aardvark.

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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 21:25 »
Right... update... based on you advice above.

checked the points (broke the clip that holds the cylinder in place  :mad: - slightly over tightened it - bolt snapped -have now wedge the cylinder in place at the right distance 20)... how angry did I get?....

Cleaned the carb and tank (there was some muck in that).

The diaphragm seems to be made from thick paper / carboard and that would not come off cleanly - so had to leave in place.but cleaned everything else around it.

put it all together and with the use of easy start can get it to fire up for a couple of seconds, then it dies...

Around the bottom of the carb where it meets the petrol tank - the diaphragm seems to be disintegrating... where is the best place to get a replacement.

Also on a similar note - I am not able to find the engine number :( - there is no panel with the engine numbers - only the Wolseley numbers mention in my first post - any advice to where it could be?

Now I need your masters experience and advice to advise on the next steps (please don't say "take it to someone who knows what they are doing!") to get to it run continually.

Cheers

aardvark.

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Gwiz

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 05:45 »
Hmm,
checked the points (broke the clip that holds the cylinder in place   - slightly over tightened it - bolt snapped -have now wedge the cylinder in place at the right distance 20)...
This bit needs to be totally immobile. The top part of the points should open by being pushed by the plunger that is underneath them, and close by being pulled by the spring.
The round cylinder shouldn't move at all.
Incidentally, I snapped the bolt once. I drilled out the old bolt and secured the clip with a self tapping screw.
The diaphragm seems to be made from thick paper / cardboard and that would not come off cleanly - so had to leave in place.but cleaned everything else around it.
]

This sounds to me more like a gasket than the diaphragm.
The diaphragm is made from a neoprene type of material, and is located behind a small square plate that is held on by 4 small screws.
Around the bottom of the carb where it meets the petrol tank - the diaphragm seems to be disintegrating... where is the best place to get a replacement.
You can get these from your local machinery dealer.
Also on a similar note - I am not able to find the engine number  - there is no panel with the engine numbers - only the Wolseley numbers mention in my first post - any advice to where it could be?

These are stamped onto the metal casing that surrounds the engine, which you had to take off to get to the flywheel. I would expect to find them stamped into the metal up near the spark plug, although sometimes it is on the side... ::)

As for getting it going, well that can take a load of patience, they can be a right pain in the 'arris at times. It sounds like you are going to have to take it to bits again.
Make sure the fuel pick up pipe filter is clean, replace the gasket, fit new points.

Don't give up, and keep smiling. Don't give it the satisfaction of knowing it's winning. ;)

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ex-cavator

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2011, 11:23 »
Right... update... based on you advice above.

checked the points (broke the clip that holds the cylinder in place  :mad: - slightly over tightened it - bolt snapped -have now wedge the cylinder in place at the right distance 20)... how angry did I get?....

Cleaned the carb and tank (there was some muck in that).

The diaphragm seems to be made from thick paper / carboard and that would not come off cleanly - so had to leave in place.but cleaned everything else around it.

put it all together and with the use of easy start can get it to fire up for a couple of seconds, then it dies...

Around the bottom of the carb where it meets the petrol tank - the diaphragm seems to be disintegrating... where is the best place to get a replacement.

Also on a similar note - I am not able to find the engine number :( - there is no panel with the engine numbers - only the Wolseley numbers mention in my first post - any advice to where it could be?

Now I need your masters experience and advice to advise on the next steps (please don't say "take it to someone who knows what they are doing!") to get to it run continually.

Cheers

aardvark.

Not familiar with this exact engine, but am fairly au fait with small engines in general - not too sure what you mean re: the clip that holds the cylinder so can't help there.

The diaphragms you refer to are in fact gaskets, as Gwiz suggests. When separating components you need to be aware of gaskets & keep them intact if at all possible in order to form airtight seals on reassembly, but if they do get damaged there's a few options - if it's only a small split or tear you might get away with it as long as you position it very carefully before doing it up. Otherwise (and assuming you can't easily locate a replacement) cut a new one from thin card (cereal packet?) or similar, thickness would not normally be critical, so long as it forms an air / liquid tight seal. Make sure you clean up both metal faces first, though - use a stanley knife blade or similar to CAREFULLY remove all traces of the old gasket / dirt etc & give a smooth clean surface, but be careful not to score the metal. You could also WITH CARE use a bit of very fine wet'n'dry to clean up the face, but no more than absolutely necessary & be sure not to start removing the metal! Or you could buy a tube of gasket cement (non setting, preferably) from a car accessory shop & apply a thin, even layer to one of the two metal faces before assembly. Can get a bit messy, though, best to stick with dry gasket material.

The good news is, it fires (albeit with quick start) and runs for a few seconds. At least that means theres nothing fundamentally wrong with it. All you need is fuel, air, and a spark. Clearly you've got all of these, just maybe not happening all together and in the right proportion. But its a start!

Air - unlikely to be a major problem, but check that the air filter (box or canister on the inlet to the carburettor) is not blocked. The element inside it may require cleaning (if a wire mesh type, swill out with petrol) or replacement (paper types). But for the sake of getting the engine running for now, just take it off temporarily. Secondly, the choke - usually a manually operated butterfly type valve on the inlet to the carburettor to control the airflow. In cold, damp conditions, you'll need to close the choke by a certain amount (trial & error) to give a  richer mixture (more fuel / less air) to the engine until it warms up. If you don't use the choke, or even if you over-choke it, the engine won't run properly & after several starting attempts you will have 'flooded' the engine with fuel. You'll then have to leave it half an hour or so to allow the excess fuel to evaporate before trying again.

Fuel - as Gwiz says, check there's no muck anywhere in the fuel system. You say you've cleaned tank and carb, check the pipes as well, and then double / triple check the carburettor. For 'muck', read water as well. Water doesn't mix with fuel and even a small drop in the carburettor will prevent the engine from running. If it's a float type carb, check the float (careful - very delicate) is not damaged, moves / pivots freely, and theres absolutely no muck in the float bowl or particularly in the very fine jets - my guess is this is where your problems will be. Blow these out until you can clearly see through them.

Also, make sure you have sufficient fuel in the tank and eliminate any air bubbles from the feed line (you may have a primer button or lever to do this) to ensure an uninterrupted supply of fuel to the carburettor when you start it up. You may also need to apply some throttle when you start it.

Spark - although you clearly have one, the strength of spark or the timing may be an issue. Pay particular attention to the condition of the plug & the gap setting, same with the points, and the condition of the HT lead / cap and its connection to the top of the plug. If timing is an issue you'll probably need a bit more detailed advice, but my guess is, if it runs for a few seconds on starting, there's probably not much wrong with the timing, so lets not worry about that yet.

Hopefully at least some of the above will help you, let us know how you get on, and Good Luck!  ;)

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Junie

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2011, 11:36 »
I had a problem with my rotavator - different model though, we sorted out spark plug etc
Our problem was a small clip which holds the wire onto the top of the spark plug, so that it was not connecting properly.
A small piece of wire as a new 'clip' sorted out the problem.

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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 22:25 »
Thanks Gwiz (again), ex-cavator and jeanie,

I did mention I know nothing about this (although got a smile on my face when it started for a few seconds)

I have a long weekend coming up - so (weather permitting) - I will be taking it all apart - drilling the bolt and using a self tapping screw as suggested by Gwiz.

The mention of the gasket from "local machinery dealer" - are these just sheets of material that you cut to the right shape? or do I need to take the carb with me? - although I might try just some cardboard for the time being :) - more time left for breaking other components.

I will give the carb a much better clean (take it apart and hope for no spares!...

The choke is the pull out type and  the air filter was removed for most of the attempts to get it started (easier to get the easy start in).

The only metal I removed to get to the fly wheel was the section with the pull cord and couldn't find anything stamped on there - but will check again at the weekend.

I will keep you all informed and thanks again for this valueable info - you guys have worded it so simply for me. (which is a big plus not having any mechanic knowledge - I once replaced the front air vent (15+ years ago, under the windscreen which pivots open closed when you manually twist a knob - nothing difficult!) on a 2CV and managed to blow the wiper motor!).

Cheers

Aardvark

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Gwiz

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 05:24 »
I'd always replace the gasket with the proper one, especially where the tank joins to the carb (sploshing around petrol when the rotovator is working will ALWAYS find a way out if it can and, Oh look, its right next to the exhaust pipe!  ;))
Take whats left of the gasket along to the machinery dealer along with the bit you removed that had the pull cord (that's where the model type and code number is. :)

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hayter

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 19:35 »
Hi

I got my gasket from briggsbits try the web site i may have a spare clip if you can get the bolt out


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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 21:04 »
Next update,

I got a replacement gasket and gave the carb another clean (took on Gwiz's advice - for 1.20 not worth a risk - built up areas like ine don't like small mushroom clouds appearing.

Checked the points (didn't get chance to compete the drill out the of old broken bolts - will complete tomorrow if weather holds and fix it in place properly - it is still sat on a trimmed eraser :)).

thanks for the offer hayter - but, I still have the old clip which is fine.

Put everything back together - a bit of easy start in the air filter hole and bang it starts and keeps running providing I start with the throttle in the middle and push it to full straight away (but not if I try to start it on full) - corrected the mix abit and it stayed running at about 1/3 throttle for about 5 minutes - then spluttered to a stop - which I hope is due to the points still not being fixed properly.

So big progress and hopefully will continue to improve - once engine is running right - I will then look at cleaning the tines and the clutch wheel (don't know the proper names) and reattach the belt.

forgot to add - found the engine number - as Gwiz said on the side of the pull cord casing (difficult ot read as it was covered in rust). So got the what I think is the right manual from Briggs and Stratton website.

Will keep you informed of continued progress.

Cheers again for all your assistance and advice.

Aardvark
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 21:08 by aardvark »

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ex-cavator

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 20:07 »
Glad to hear it all looks promising. Just one tip - as for cleaning the tines (I assume they're a bit rusty if they've not been used for a while?) - once you've run it over the plot they'll look a whole lot better - the abrasive action of the soil does a great job  :D

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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 23:09 »
Thanks ex-cavator - will remember that and give it a run out before touching the tines.

The latest update (is a step back sort of - but knowledge is increased).

Fired up OK with just Petrol (no easy start).  ran at very slow for a while (5+ minutes again).

tried to fire it up later and nothing (including wiht easy start) - checked spark plug and it was black. - the mix was way too rich - and clogged up the plug.

cleaned it up again and let it sit for and hour or so - fired it up again and begain tweaking the mix (what a prat - turned it the wrong way assumed turning the screw out let more air in - but doesn't seem to be the case - after a strange girgle noise and a puff of smoke - it stopped - I think I flooded it again - so leaving it until tomorrow (hope the rain holds off) - give it another clean out and try and correct the mix again - if all running nicely - time to reconnect the belt and try out the tines :).

Thanks again for all you advice and help everyone and will let you know the outcome.

aardvark.

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aardvark

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Re: Wolseley Merry Tiller help.
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 14:49 »
Today has been a bad day.

cleaned it all up, person it running for about 30 secs - the spluttered to a halt :(.

left it for a while - cleaned the spark plug up again - tried restarting (still using drill) and then the clutch assy rewind starter (according to the engine manual) - decided to come apart - so now I have 3 pieces and 6 bearings - I can put them back together - but not sure if they will stay fixed - will they? or should I look at buying a replacement?



taken from: http://www.briggsbits.co.uk/acatalog/Horizontal_crankshaft_2-7_HP_Sidevalve_Engines.html
 
What should I do?

Cheers

Aardvark.



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