Poll

Bare Soil During Winter Should Be....

Left open.
16 (53.3%)
Covered with a waterproof membrane.
4 (13.3%)
Covered with a permeable membrane.
4 (13.3%)
Other (Please specify by posting below.)
6 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Voting closed: November 24, 2013, 16:19


cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?

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3759allen

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2013, 17:22 »
personally i mainly use covering as a weed suppressant to try and save some time in the spring when there's plenty to do.

i try to spread manure, old compost, mulch, etc on the ground before covering to let the worms do their business. i do find under the waterproof cover needs a generous watering before covering and regular (monthly) lifting, checking and dampening if needed.

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Totty

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2013, 18:52 »
This year I am mulching really heavily with smashed up leaves. They break down differently to garden compost and such like, so therefore in theory the decomposition process should not rob any nitrogen from the soil like fresh manure would.

I'm hoping, that the warmth generated from the leaves will keep the various bacteria and soil dwelling critters active and working throughout the winter. In a month or so I'll be layering a load of well rotted manure on top, before digging it all in spring. It will suppress weeds too.

I'm also mulching heavily around the Jerusalem artichokes that I have cut back with leaves. I dig them as needed through the winter, which can leave the ground in a bit of a mess, I'm hoping that a thick layer of leaves will make lifting them a much cleaner job, and it will be incorporated as I do so.

Totty

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BabbyAnn

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2013, 19:13 »
They break down differently to garden compost and such like, so therefore in theory the decomposition process should not rob any nitrogen from the soil like fresh manure would.

I'm not sure if that statement is strictly true - anything that is composted down will initially rob the soil of nitrogen as soil bacteria and fungi take it up to multiply but when they die off, the nitrogen is returned to the soil.

However, I do dig trenches and fill with leaves and some other stuff for composting and back fill with soil in some of the beds with heavy clay - these beds are used for summer crops such as winter squash and sweetcorn that don't get planted until late June.  I'm not sure the leaves add that much nutrient but they do break down and improve the soil structure immensely.  When I plant out, I usually toss some chicken manure into the holes.

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Totty

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2013, 21:41 »
Leaves break down a lot slower than garden composts, manure etc, purely because of the carbon/nitrogen ratios available to soil organisms.
In order for rapid decomposition, a 30/1 ratio is the ideal in order for the organisms to break down organic matter. Rotted manure and veg trimmings have a ratio of around 20-25/1, whereas leaves have a ratio of upto 85/1. Leaves are therefore much slower to decompose, and in turn much slower to rob the nitrogen.

In reality though I think you would have to dig in huge amounts of fresh manure/food scraps etc to see any significant nitrogen loss, and as pointed out, by using either organic or inorganic fertilisers throughout the growing season, any small losses would be easily topped up.

Totty

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strangerachael

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 15:56 »
I've covered my bare patches partly with green manure which was grown earlier in the year, and cut down to use as mulch, and also with cut down crops - beans, courgettes etc. Next spring anything un-decomposed can be raked off and composted, but the bottom layer has usually decomposed and been keeping the worms busy.
Rachael

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goodtogrow

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2013, 17:13 »
I'm with Rachael on this.  I use woody prunings, now becoming plentiful, aka 'brash', on my clay.

Intrestinglee (sp?) I've read that winter frosts breakdown woody material.  As such frosts are the first wave of degrading influence before bacterial, and fungal,  decomposers move in.  So all my prunings are processed in winter and end up on the bottom of my compost heap in spring.

It could catch on.
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JayG

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 10:30 »
Strictly speaking, as BabbyAnn has already mentioned, high carbon materials containing little nitrogen "borrow" rather than "rob" the soil of nitrogen, although the effect can be the same in the short term.

What such materials can't do is suck nitrogen from the soil if they are lying on top of it - a leaf or wood chip mulch will not deplete soil nitrogen, although it will take longer to decompose having no access to nitrogen to feed the microorganisms which bring the process about.

Fresh manure may contain lots of high carbon bedding material, but that should be balanced out by the nitrogen from the urea in the bedding.

As for covering, a waterproof tarpaulin would avoid the leaching effects of winter rains, and should warm the soil a little in spring - against that is the possibility of harbouring slugs, reducing the beneficial effects of frost, and preventing access to birds and other beasties which can help reduce pests.

I prefer to leave the soil bare, but with very sandy soil there's not much left in the soil in winter to try to preserve anyway  ::), so I leave turning in well rotted compost or manure until early spring.
Sow your seeds, plant your plants. What's the difference? A couple of weeks or more when answering possible queries!

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mumofstig

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 11:50 »
As for covering, a waterproof tarpaulin would avoid the leaching effects of winter rains, and should warm the soil a little in spring - against that is the possibility of harbouring slugs, reducing the beneficial effects of frost, and preventing access to birds and other beasties which can help reduce pests.

I prefer to leave the soil bare, but with very sandy soil there's not much left in the soil in winter to try to preserve anyway  ::), so I leave turning in well rotted compost or manure until early spring.

On sandy soils like ours Jay, they need the winter rain - some of my plot would be a dry beach, come spring, if I covered it with tarp  :ohmy:

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JayG

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 11:57 »
On sandy soils like ours Jay, they need the winter rain - some of my plot would be a dry beach, come spring, if I covered it with tarp  :ohmy:

Too true Mum (mind you, samphire might like it and we could be rich beyond our wildest dreams, not to mention super-trendy!  :lol:)

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MickyB

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 17:22 »
I have gone with the majority on this one - and not just because it's the easy option (honest  ::))

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Armleywhite

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2013, 15:00 »
Seems it's a bit 50/50 as to cover or not.  One of the old boys on our lotty said don't cover and break up the soil but leave in big lumps as the frost has a better chance of giving the soil a positive effect.  However, can I ask a couple of questions along similar lines. 

A, When people say nutrients leach away.  Where to?
B, I have a shed load of well rotted manure.  when is the best time to lay it on the plot?



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JayG

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2013, 15:10 »
A) Into the groundwater, although some will run off the surface if your soil is that way inclined. Where the groundwater finishes up depends on your local geography, but much finishes up in rivers or eventually in underground aquifers, some of which are used for drinking water.

B) Anytime, but if you leave it 'till spring you will need to fork it in as the worms don't work that fast!

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Armleywhite

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2013, 15:13 »
A) Into the groundwater, although some will run off the surface if your soil is that way inclined. Where the groundwater finishes up depends on your local geography, but much finishes up in rivers or eventually in underground aquifers, some of which are used for drinking water.

B) Anytime, but if you leave it 'till spring you will need to fork it in as the worms don't work that fast!

Brilliant, thanks, so as regards to nutrients being washed away it's better to add some form of feed, ie; pellets, bfb to the soil prior to planting?  Would that be enough to help the growth?

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JayG

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2013, 15:23 »
So many variables - much depends on your soil type, how rich the manure was, when you applied it, how wet the winter turns out to be.......

At best you shouldn't need additional fertilisers, at worst you can't grow things well without them, but artificial fertilisers are an example of a good thing that you can have too much of, so use cautiously.

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Armleywhite

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Re: cover with tarpaulin - Right Or Wrong?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2013, 16:15 »
So many variables - much depends on your soil type, how rich the manure was, when you applied it, how wet the winter turns out to be.......

At best you shouldn't need additional fertilisers, at worst you can't grow things well without them, but artificial fertilisers are an example of a good thing that you can have too much of, so use cautiously.
Ta very muchly :)



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