planning the plot

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Janeymiddlewife

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planning the plot
« on: November 08, 2008, 19:34 »
It seems the more I read, the more confused I grow (ha!)

Is it important where things are in the plot? I know about rotations and all that - but are there some plants that should not be grown next to others for example - will some tall plants (like beans & corn) "harm" other plants?
Then there's catch cropping, companion planting - I'm getting very confused. :?
What I would really like to know is where to stick a row of Autumn Bliss because they can't be moved, and where to plant a herb bed and flowers.
The front is boarded by the road, the back by a bramble patch  :cry:  the sides by 2 very nice plots, including the row rep so I need to be good.
My plot is roughly 10 foot wide and about 45 long, I'm not going to use any paths at the mo or raised beds as the soil is pretty good and doesn't seem to have a drainage problem

thanks for your help

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amberleaf

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planning the plot
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 07:08 »
Hi there.

Yes you are quite right that rotation has it's place. However that is mostly intended for large farms. You do not know what was planted where by the previous holder. One chap on our site had planted his onions in the same place every year and after the 18th year complained that they had a disease.

Companion growing is important. I found this year my carrots were free from carrot fly. I had tried growing a row of onions and a row of carrots in the past, carrots in raised pots based on a theory that the fly only get to 4" off the ground (wrong). wiped with a strong smelling fluids. Nothing had worked. This year I had a load of marigolds, just to make the area look pretty I planted them round two rows of carrots (which I already knew were doomed) and was delighted to find that there were only one or two carrots with fly damage.

Things of the same 'family' like potatoes and tomatoes or the onion,leek,garlic groups are best kept separate  but on a plot the distance between where you can grow one or another means that fungal spores are capable of getting blown from one end to the other, or even from next door.

When I first started, I thought that you just dug up everywhere in Autumn put on a layer of rich organic matter. In spring dig in the manure. Plant the crops in neat rows, keep weed free scatter a few slug pellets after it rains then enjoy my veg when ever I wanted them.

Then I found that the cabbages were too small, the cauliflowers were not formed properly, parsnips looked like weird monsters from outer space, the potatoes had holes in them, sprouts were all open. Beetroot bolted, spinach went to seed, the broccoli turned in to yellow flowers, tomatoes got blighted and the courgettes became marrows overnight. Beans got so huge they were stringy.

The herb bed was so full of nettles I could not get a sprig of mint without being stung.

Over the years, with different plagues, unreliable weather and weeds which attach themselves to roots, I have learned to grow herbs in big pots, cut them well back in mid June for a second sprouting. Grow the vegetables we like in smaller numbers, spacing out better, I still find it hard to realise that the little 3" cabbage plant will soon span to 3 feet.

This year we heavily manured a bed with about 2ft of fresh manure in February and  we planted it with courgettes which needed to be picked daily. Next year we will use the same bed for potatoes. Later that year it wont get any more manure but will have winter onions planted on it.

I just lift the weeds now when I want to plant sprouts cauliflowers or winter broccoli, they like the ground hard. So it will not be dug.

Picking at the right time with beans gives me more crop and the beans can either be eaten, frozen, given away or composted, not left to go stringy.

Spring is my favourite time, freshly dug weed free ground and little seedlings offering promise.

The science of growing crops is not too much different to the science of parenting a bit hit and miss and you are never too sure how the end product will turn out. But the plants do not talk back to you or run off and go missing. And if crops fail one year, you can try again the year after.
If it rots compost it
If it burns burn it
If it is chocolate eat it

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muntjac

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planning the plot
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 07:37 »
start by taking a piece of paper and a compass down to the plot along with a tape measure .mark out on the paper the plot plan include any paths or sheds trees etc . now decide what permanant beds your going to make and then transfer these along with the plants you want to use , take into account the following , where on your plot does the sun rise and set . what plants need full sunlight ,what need partial shade and what need to be out of the suns full glare , now  take the plan home and sit and decide what layout your going to use for annual beds ( the beds your going to rotate vegetables in ) mark these on your plan. the thing with plants now being to close to others  is simply rectified this way ... put them in beds that you have space in away from them .  by not having paths you simplify things in that you can move down your plot with a rotation system and set out permanant beds to suit your needs . spuds , cabbages . onions carrots  in rotation beds and permanats in what it says ,,,,keep it simple
still alive /............

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agapanthus

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planning the plot
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 11:18 »
Quote from: "muntjac"
start by taking a piece of paper and a compass down to the plot along with a tape measure .mark out on the paper the plot plan include any paths or sheds trees etc . now decide what permanant beds your going to make and then transfer these along with the plants you want to use , take into account the following , where on your plot does the sun rise and set . what plants need full sunlight ,what need partial shade and what need to be out of the suns full glare , now  take the plan home and sit and decide what layout your going to use for annual beds ( the beds your going to rotate vegetables in ) mark these on your plan. the thing with plants now being to close to others  is simply rectified this way ... put them in beds that you have space in away from them .  by not having paths you simplify things in that you can move down your plot with a rotation system and set out permanant beds to suit your needs . spuds , cabbages . onions carrots  in rotation beds and permanats in what it says ,,,,keep it simple


Nice to have you back Munty!!! ;) ;)

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DD.

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planning the plot
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2008, 12:58 »
Quote from: "agapanthus"


Nice to have you back Munty!!! ;) ;)


Yes, guess you don't hear much from him either, Aggy!
Did it really tell you to do THAT on the packet?

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woodburner

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planning the plot
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2008, 13:50 »
The only thing I have found not to plant together is beans and alliums, though I have no first hand experience of what happens if you do. ;)

I have found (from reading) that there are very few hard and fast 'rules'. They are as follows:
Don't plant things from the same plant family in the same place two seasons running. (The more seasons between, the better though.)
Carrots and parsnips do not like rich soil so avoid planting in recently manured/compost enriched soil.
Brassicas don't like soil too acid, so might need a bit of lime.

If you're into companion planting there are a couple more things. Alliums don't like growing with beans, but everything else does better growing with them.
Alternating rows of onions and carrots, deters both carrot and onion flies
I demand the right to buy seed of varieties that are not "distinct, uniform and stable".

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agapanthus

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planning the plot
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2008, 14:05 »
Quote from: "DD."
Quote from: "agapanthus"


Nice to have you back Munty!!! ;) ;)


Yes, guess you don't hear much from him either, Aggy!


He's always out doing something!!!!!....nice he's here though!! ;)

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Janeymiddlewife

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planning the plot
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2008, 18:44 »
Thanks for all the advice. I've also been "playing" with the 30 day trial from growveg.com (I think). I quite like it because it sizes the crop for you so you can only plant at correct spacings and it also "remembers" what you planted on a 3 year rotation and highlights in red if you try to plant anything in the "wrong" place.
Anyone else tried it out?

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AndyRVTR

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planning the plot
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2008, 19:18 »
I have just signed up for the same thing today... though havn't tried it yet... looks pretty good though I must say.



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