[rowlandwells]

I'm of the opinion and I've said many times on this site one needs to put back in the ground what one takes out and its becoming more of a problem for allotment holders to get access to cattle dung  well it is for us because some farmers may be arable growers don't keep live stock and those that do keep stock its not really worth doing as most have large trailers that they cant get near the allotments or even in the allotment gates

so what's the alternative we use horse manure that needs stacking for at least twelve months so what to do well we tend to use as said horse manure and chemical fertilizer and some organic feeds and although this does produces results I would like to sow and grow something to put humus back in the ground we have been trying green manure [mustard] but I'm unsure if green manure puts back enough goodness back in the ground

so it boils down to finding a good alternative to cattle manure something we can grow from seed maybe there's a green manure that can compensate? I've toiled with the idea of growing a wheat crop cutting it down when its ripe ploughing in the straw in and the stubble back in the ground but as that tends to pull the nutrients out of the ground it mite not be the rite crop to put back humus so its difficult for me to put my finger on what to grow that will benefit  the growing ground

and so I thought I would throw this  back to our members to get there opinions on this topic and what they think mite be a good alternative and the other thing  is as you know fertilizers are going up in leaps and
bounds so what's the alternative for improving soil  quality I ask ?

[jambop]

I have access to farmyard manure but if I did not I would be making as much compost as I could getting material from were ever. I grow in raised beds so I only treat some of my beds with manure the others get the cheapest compost I can lay my hands on. At the end of this year I have three 600L and one mega composter maybe  5000L to empty onto selected beds and covering with cardboard over winter the others will get manure. If I was really flush with the stuff I would just use well made compost as farm manure is full of weed seeds.

[Offwego]

Some really good points and thought provoking questions
I myself this year have added a load of well rotted horse muck and spent mushroom compost, but I too am thinking about green manure over winter

[mumofstig]

I sow green manure, on a small part of my plot where the soil seems particularly lifeless, it is slowly improving
In spring everywhere gets some Orgro Concentrated Manure and some seaweed meal, I put bagged manure into buckets for potato growing and this also gets returned to the beds after harvest.

I really think anything you can add makes a difference.....

[jezza]

Hello I have a contact who takes horse manure from racing stables compost it sterilisers it  and sells it in bags,its good stuff ,if an allotment wanted a good few bags I'm sure he'd  deliver  it    jezza

[rowlandwells]

interesting to note some of you like me use horse manure however its important when buying or getting free horse manure that the hay or other hay like feeds have not been subject to weed treatments before  cutting the grass to make hay as this can cause real problems for growing veg and other plants

and what I did notice yesterday when we went down the allotments was someone had spread fresh horse manure and sawdust over there plot not a good idea me thinks 

so  hopefully there will be more advise regarding this topic coming from our members as it would be of interest to find out what could be used to beef up the soil organically if possible

[snowdrops]

Horse manure that I test for amniopyralids, chicken manure pellets, blood,fish & bone & homemade compost that has fresh manure layered through it & copious amounts of chicken manure from the pen clear out twice a year are all I use. Spent compost from the greenhouse tomatoes & pots gets used around the garden usually as a mulch with additions of all but homemade compost as I make it all at the plot & there’s horsetail/marestail there & non at home so I don’t risk bringing it to the garden.
As I now do no dig throughout I’m using less chicken pellets & blood,fish & bone as it just doesn’t need it.
In the tunnel last year (1st year of having it) I didn’t feed the tomatoes,cues,peppers at all with any additional feeds aka Charles Dowding advice & they were brilliant, they were all planted in the ground. Last year was 4th year no dig for me. So savings all round if I don’t need to buy any in as the manure is free.

[Candide]

I'm new to allotments and this forum and am surprised that people can get cow manure.  I come from a long line of dairy cattlemen and women and no farmer that I know of would sell muck off the farm.  There's been new developements such as cattle kept indoors all year, not just over winter so obviously more bedding to process.  I'll get in touch with my cousins and see if they can enlighten me.

[Subversive_plot]

Rowland:

Compost that includes green manure crops will contain substantial nitrogen.  Whether the green manure is grass, comfrey, clover, or mustard, it all contains nitrogen.  For crops that are used as forage for cattle etc., it is common to measure total nitrogen to measure the protein content of the forage ("crude protein" (CP)).  The CP value of forage is just the forage lab's measurement of the nitrogen content in the forage, and multiplying that nitrogen number by 6.25.  The amount of nitrogen varies by crop type and condition.

A forage grass crop, managed for maximum yield and quality, harvested at the optimum time, may have 12% CP (as DRY matter, green hay will be less, due to the water content).  Divide 12% by 6.25, the dry matter is 2% nitrogen.  Compost that hay, some of that nitrogen is available quickly, other becomes available slowly as the compost is broken down by insects, fungi, bacteria, worms, etc. (so prior year compost becomes a slow-release "nitrogen reservoir" in your soil).  Old hay beyond it's prime will have less CP and therefore less nitrogen (but still has value for compost!).  Other crops may have higher CP content, others less.

I think that if manures become less available to you, green manures (or compost from them) are good choice.  I'd wager you already have a good quantity of nitrogen "banked" in your soil, due to past horse manure applications that you have posted about!

Added later: Let's say you have a 50-pound bag of compost, from green manure and dry matter ("browns", leaves and so forth), and it is 1% nitrogen. The area you are covering with that bag is getting a half pound of nitrogen!  Think about the area over which you use 50 pounds of compost, that is a LOT of nitrogen! 

[rowlandwells]

I think your on the rite track S/P because after having the soil tested it came up with only deficient in sulphur so that's not to bad but I'm never the less looking at trying to put more humus  back in the ground  so any green material should improve the soil and being less reliant on using chemical fertilizers if that makes sense

[New shoot]

I found fodder radish to be a very good green manure crop last year.  It grows very fast and makes a lot of top growth. 

It was sown late summer on ground that had been growing broad beans and potatoes.  It got strimmed down late autumn and covered with plastic.  There were a lot of green leaves on the surface of the soil and loads of roots in it at that point.  That ground was uncovered last week and all traces of the radish are gone, but the soil is full of worms, friable and looks in great heart 

[rowlandwells]

is this fodder radish what we call fodder beat round here new shoot? anyway that really sounds a good thing to try and I would tend to plough it in rather than cover it but digging it in or ploughing I suspect  would still do the job as good and so your reply another bit of good info

Thank you

[New shoot]

is this fodder radish what we call fodder beat round here new shoot? anyway that really sounds a good thing to try and I would tend to plough it in rather than cover it but digging it in or ploughing I suspect  would still do the job as good and so your reply another bit of good info

Thank you

I’m not sure if it the same as fodder beet.  I got mine last year from Sow Seeds, but was looking at this supplier on eBay for a bulk buy.  I reckon it will keep a year or two for me and it is probably in better quantities for you 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133852409949?hash=item1f2a39b05d:g:k00AAOSwrk5eyPvP

[Subversive_plot]

I think your on the rite track S/P because after having the soil tested it came up with only deficient in sulphur so that's not to bad but I'm never the less looking at trying to put more humus  back in the ground  so any green material should improve the soil and being less reliant on using chemical fertilizers if that makes sense

Hi Rowland

It sounds like you have things in great shape!

If you want to take care of that sulfur, you can supply as calcium sulfate (gypsum), or magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts). Yellow sulfur will also work. 

However, if sulfur is not too low, you might want to leave it alone, especially if you grow onions. Our famous Vidalia (Georgia) onions are a mild and sweet short-day onions, part of the reason they are so sweet are the low sulfur soils near Vidalia. One of the varieties most commonly grown in that region is called Yellow Granex.

[Hampshire Hog]

 I just liberally spread chicken manure pellets on beds plus home made compost for my bean trench etc. Sometimes add a bit of growmore too to boost growth. I used to regularly add horse manure from the local stables but I haven’t been for a couple of years due to the dreaded Covid. Don’t think they are as relaxed as they were in the past I just used to wander in and take the manure from their pile out back. Agree though about aiming to get the older manure not fresh. Not sure it’s recommended but about 30 years ago I had a lorry load of pig manure delivered to home and had a massive crop of spuds. Don’t know what my neighbours thought of the stink though!