[Jim T]

AS this is the best gardening helpline in the world,
I'm sure someone will demistify me about this word.

I've been trying to get the basic principles of what groups of veggies need what nutrients and I thought I had it taped with the 4 groups: Legumes which fix N, Onions which need N because they are really leaves, Brassicas which need N because they are obviously leaves and Potato/ Tomato group which like N except for carrots, which need K for roots.

This must seem a terrible over-simplification but I hope not actually wrong!
But suddenly I came across this group and I can't find what Umbellifers are ....... and it sounds an ugly word.
"Umbellifers:   
Carrot, parsnip, parsley, celery, Florence fennel   Root crops need stone-free soil; not freshly manured; fine tilth   Root crops break up soil structure"

 :? Help please,
Jim

[shaun]

hi jim whats the question ?

[muntjac]

i thought it was a drunk iraqi shouting  cristians ..... ur a laof of umbellifers

[shaun]

why complicate things  :?

Umbellifers are herbs arnt they

[richyrich7]

Plants having flowers in umbels: parsley; carrot; anise; caraway; celery; dill  

[Dabhand]

I thought umbellifiers were Cow parsley and Queen Anne lace and those type of plants.

[Jim T]

hi jim whats the question ?

Hi Shaun.
What are umbellifers?
Jim

[Dabhand]

http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1200/crop_rotation.asp

This explains it Jim...

[Annie]

The RHS help and advice thing says it word for word and you have listed the main gardening crops that come under that label.Are you wondering how to fit them into a rotation in a sensible 3-4 yr kind if way?Or is making a rotation plan giving you a headache?Put them in newly manured soil and the roots will fork,stones obstructing growth also cause forking.We have clay soil and are adding gritty sand and compost before we plant and this will gradually mean that all the beds will have better soil eventually.In some rotation plans you`ll just find them lumped in as root crops.Don`t know if this helps.

[Trillium]

Queen Anne's lace was the original plant from which they developed carrots after finding a sport, Dabhand. Same with parsleys. And why mostly the same bugs prefer all of the umbellifers.

[Jim T]

The RHS help and advice thing says it word for word and you have listed the main gardening crops that come under that label.Are you wondering how to fit them into a rotation in a sensible 3-4 yr kind if way?Or is making a rotation plan giving you a headache?Put them in newly manured soil and the roots will fork,stones obstructing growth also cause forking.We have clay soil and are adding gritty sand and compost before we plant and this will gradually mean that all the beds will have better soil eventually.In some rotation plans you`ll just find them lumped in as root crops.Don`t know if this helps.

  Thanks Annie. People think I am a pain, wanting to complicate things - but I have the sort of mind that needs to see how things fit into categories. You saw my problem and have explained things very well  
These "Umbellifers" I now see, are the group of root vegetables that need soft soil for the roots to go straight down ....... is that it?

Just one more thing Annie - Do they all have the same NPK requirements and is that mainly potash for the roots?

Jim

[Annie]

Parsnips and carrots have similar growing requirements for soil condition,as to feeding they do well if put into beds that were manured for a previous crop,that seems to be enough,too much nitrogen will give you huge leaves but no benefit.Don`t grow your carrots too near the parsnips as parsnip tops are huge and will just cover your carrots.
If you really feel the need to use fertiliser then use a complete fertiliser and rake it in a couple of weeks before sowing.
The main reason for rotation or groups is to avoid build up of soil borne disease.

[WG.]

Parsnips and carrots have similar growing requirements for soil condition,as to feeding they do well if put into beds that were manured for a previous crop,that seems to be enough,too much nitrogen will give you huge leaves but no benefit.Don`t grow your carrots too near the parsnips as parsnip tops are huge and will just cover your carrots.
If you really feel the need to use fertiliser then use a complete fertiliser and rake it in a couple of weeks before sowing.
The main reason for rotation or groups is to avoid build up of soil borne disease.

Nice write-up Annie.

[muntjac]

yeh i couldnt said it betterer meself cept fer the proper spellin

[Annie]

:oops:  :oops:
Wow,praise indeed,ta chaps.
You didnt see it before I hit the spell check.I`ve moved up to 2 finger typing,got faster but make so many more mistakes.