[Bodger]

But if she's eating and drinking normally, will she be okay Bodger?

I'm not sure what the prognosis is, other than it wont go away. There isn't a treatment for mold toxins. The person before Pamela must have been feeding moldy food, so there's no need to change the feed.
A quarter teaspoon of copper sulfate per gallon of water over three days will neutralise toxicity caused by fungus mold, but this will almost certainly be too late in the day to alleviate the symptoms.

[GrannieAnnie]

Aww poor Emu.  I hope the other hens don't take a dislike to her because of her affliction!

[Aunt Sally]

Afflotoxin is the one you get in mouldy feed.  I thought it caused liver damage rather than neurological problems

Do the birds recover from it when on good feed Bodger ?

[Oliveview]

It´s getting worse by the minute  :shock:  The  prognosis, not the hen    I will go to bed now and hope things improve by tomorrow morning- I will let you know.
The local vet knows nothing at all about hens - he said himself when I asked him about worming hens.  Mind you, the vet in the practice in teh UK where we used to live knew nothing either when I went in to buy worming powder :shock:   Guess if it doesn´t meow or bark they dont know about them!
Pamela

[Aunt Sally]

Article here:

http://www.engormix.com/mycotoxins_and_their_effect_e_articles_96_MYC.htm

More common in Mediteranean area apprently.


I'd still give her some vitamin E  Pamela,  can do no harm, might do good !

[nnbreeder]

Over here we call that limber-neck and it is caused by either a vitiman deffeciancy or a problem with the hen absorbing the nutrients in her feed properly. Usually both Botulism and the Aflatoxin will cause them to go limp starting with the legs first. Maybe someone on the site can recomend some good vit.s to give her to see if she improves.

[Bodger]

Hi
We looked at Limber neck on here just the other week and its different than this condition.
 Instead of being caused by toxins from moldy food, its actually caused by the injestion of Clostridium Botulinum.
 The chickens will have taken it in by eating rotten decaying meats and or the maggots that maybe in it.

Symptoms

The birds become nervous, become extremely weak, sleepy, lose appetite and show progressive paralysis of the legs, wings and neck. The chickens will then lie down with their necks stretched out on the ground. At this point, the birds feathers will be loose and easily pulled out.

Prevention is the best cure, but for treatment, you mix a strong solution of Epsom salts in half a cup of water and pour as much as you can down the chickens throat. This should be repeated twice a day until the bird is back on its feet, which should take two or three days at the most.

This is not the condition that Pamelas bird has.

[Oliveview]

Morning folks,
Emu update.
When she sits still her neck is ´short´ she doesn´t hold it erect like the other hens.  I´ve noticed too that she seems to look about her almost as if her neck able to turn right round on itself!  She is now outside in the orchard with the other hens, I had to chase the new ones out, they were huddled in the corner of the hen house.  She is eating and pecking off the ground, I will keep an eye on her and try her with some vitamin drops in the water (won´t hurt them to have a vit booste!)  We have to take the neighbour into town this evening so I will go to the animal supply shop and ask there for drops.
The old hens are not happy this morning- much squarking- they forget they too were new girls once
Thanks for your comments and interest
Pamela

[agapanthus]

Thanks for that Bodger.  We learn something every day

Well said Aunty!!

[Kate and her Ducks]

Hi
We looked at Limber neck on here just the other week and its different than this condition.
 Instead of being caused by toxins from moldy food, its actually caused by the injestion of Clostridium Botulinum.
 The chickens will have taken it in by eating rotten decaying meats and or the maggots that maybe in it.

Symptoms

The birds become nervous, become extremely weak, sleepy, lose appetite and show progressive paralysis of the legs, wings and neck. The chickens will then lie down with their necks stretched out on the ground. At this point, the birds feathers will be loose and easily pulled out.

Prevention is the best cure, but for treatment, you mix a strong solution of Epsom salts in half a cup of water and pour as much as you can down the chickens throat. This should be repeated twice a day until the bird is back on its feet, which should take two or three days at the most.

This is not the condition that Pamelas bird has.

Clostridium botulinum is a bacteria which causes paralysis by the release of endotoxins (the same stuff as botox!). Treatment is by supportive care (of breathing if necessary) and antibiotics. Antitoxins have been used to block the effects of the toxins in early cases.  It can take weeks in some cases for the paralysis to abate.
Other than the supportive management of providing fluids, the epsoms salts will not alter the affects of the toxin or the bacteria. Chickens may respond differently from humans but the bacteria  and its endotoxins are the same.

[Bodger]

Its worked for my chickens and other peoples but then I don't get everything out of a book. If you like, you can take everything I say with a pinch of salt. Its up to you.

Read this.

http://www.ei-resource.org/treatment-reviews-%11-other/complementary%10alternative-therapies/epsom-salts-(magnesium-sulfate)/

This is the article that I refer to

Epsom salts are composed of magnesium and sulfate (sulphate). Both of which are nutrients which may be of benefit to those suffering from environmental illnesses.

 

The salts dissolve in water so can be used in a bath or footbath and have traditionally been used in this way to aid relaxation. Research conducted by Dr Rosemary Waring at the School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham, UK, demonstrated that both magnesium and sulfate are easily absorbed through the skin during bathing in epsom salts. The optimum level of epsom salts required seemed to be 400-600g per bath (60 litres UK/15 gallons US). Blood levels of both magnesium and sulfate continued to rise with repeated daily baths. Epsom salts baths are therefore a highly effective way to increase the levels of these important substances in the body. Epsom salts may now be available in transdermal patches and some parents of autistic children reportedly make up their own if baths are not an option.

 

Magnesium: A very important mineral in the body. Magnesium acts as a co-factor for numerous metabolic reactions including but not limited to those involving energy production, muscle function and the production of neurotransmitters. Magnesium is calming to the nervous system and as such acts as a natural tranquiliser. Sufficient levels of this mineral therefore are essential to maintaining healthy energy levels, mental functioning and mood. Studies and the clinical experience of doctors such as Dr. Sarah Myhill have demonstrated that red cell magnesium levels are low in those with chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) and that supplementation brings symptomatic improvements in patients. Some researchers have also noted magnesium deficiencies in autistic children and those with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) suggesting supplementation may help, particularly with hyperactivity and behavioural problems.

 

Sulfate/Sulphate: A form of sulfur which the body requires for important processes including detoxification, protection of the gut lining, and activation of hormones such as DHEA. Sulfate is needed to detoxify a wide range of environmental toxins. Researchers including Dr Waring, Professor Malcolm Hooper, and others at Sunderland University, UK, and elsewhere have found that individuals with autism, ME/CFS, Gulf War Syndrome and possibly other environmental illnesses have low levels of sulfate. This may be due to an inability to convert sulfur from the diet into the sulfate form or because the individual has been subjected to a high load of environmental toxins therefore depleting sulfate levels in the body. Epsom Salts would therefore seem to be an ideal way to restore sulfate levels and detoxification potential as the sulfate is supplied in the readily useable form rather than as sulfur as it appears in the diet.

 

note: epsom salts (USP/BP) used internally are prescribed as a treatment for constipation as they are not well absorbed from the gut.

[Aunt Sally]

I don't think it's Botulism  

This is an extract from the poultry site:

Botulism

Introduction

A condition of chickens, turkeys, ducks and other waterfowl occurring worldwide and caused by a bacterial toxin produced by Clostridium botulinum mainly types A / C. The toxin is produced in decaying animal (usually carcases) and plant waste, and toxin-containing material (pond-mud, carcases, maggots) is consumed by the birds. Toxin may also be produced by the bacteria in the caecum. Morbidity is usually low but mortality is high. The toxin and bacterial spores are relatively stable and may survive for some time in the environment. It has also been suggested that poultry carcases lost in litter can be a cause of botulism in cattle grazing land or consuming silage where poultry litter has been spread.

Signs

Nervous signs, weakness, progressive flaccid paralysis of legs, wings then neck, then sudden death.
Affected broilers tend to settle with eyes closed when not disturbed.
A soiled beak, because it rests on the litter, is also quite typical.

Signs don't sound quite right and weakeness is in the wrong order.  

I'd STILL give her vitamins particularly Vit E !

[Aunt Sally]

Oh I forgot:

The epsom salts is for a laxative to purge any organisms or bad food from their tums

http://www.poultryhelp.com/botulism.html

Good advice there Bodger


But I'm still going with vitamin E    

[Oliveview]

I´ve just been down to check the hens-  I have 3 groups-  the old girls, who are in my bad books, only 1 egg from 10 hens  How can I sell 24 eggs this weekend at this rate?  The 3 new girls that I bought last week and the 5 new hans I got yesterday.  They are all in their own part of the orchard.  If the old girls move- it is like musical chairs they all move around   I had a good look for ´Emu´ but the 5 new girls all looked the same- no strange head this afternoon   Hopefully it stays like that
Pamela

[Aunt Sally]

Good news Pamela but verrrrry strange  :?