[ManicMum]

It would be interesting to know more about the grounds set out in their letter, Mammahen.

From this and previous threads, it sounds as though the Environmental Health people might be your first contact: if you can prove that your chickens are well kept, that you are knowledgeable about chicken care requirements, that you have taken robust measures regarding rats and so on, they would find it hard to enforce the ban on welfare grounds.

As you & the dog owner have sorted out the security aspects, it is clear evidence you are addressing any problems effectively.

Please keep us posted about how you're getting on: for yourself and because it could help others in the future.

[Dominic]

I received a letter yesterday from my local council saying that I have to get rid of my 5 little chickens.  I have had them for 3 months now and they have not been a problem at all. I keep them clean and well fed and watered, I even talk to them like they are my babies.  My neighbours dog got in and killed 1 of them about 2 weeks ago and she reported the incident herself to the council and stated that they are not a nuisance she was just concerned about her dogs killing anymore, that problem has been rectified now and we have all security  measures sorted. what can I do to keep my girls as they are family pets they are rescued ex- battery and do not lay eggs, my children and nephews love feeding and playing with them as they are very tame now. Please help xxxxx 

If you could post the text of the letter, that would be helpful.

There are environmental health reasons why you cant keep chickens, but that has to be proven on a case by case basis.
Many councils believe their tenancy agreements can prevent you keeping chickens, they cant, as has been explained, they can no more prevent you keeping chickens than take your first born as slave.  Statute Law takes precedence, and statue law says you can keep chickens on any land you own or rent.

Most likely, you just need to reply saying something like, "I believe have a statuatory right under the Allotment act to keep chickens, if I am mistaken, could you please inform me as to what act of parliament has revoked that right."

CC the Borough Solicitor, they wont have a clue what the law is, but any mention of real law will no doubt scare them into silence and leaving you alone.

[hillfooter]

mammahen needs to prove nothing it's entirely up to the council to show grounds for banning her chickens.  Since they haven't done an inspection they cannot have nuisance or health grounds and from the post it appears they are acting on the terms of a tenancy agreement or deeds or bylaw.  None of these have precedent over a statute law.  So the first and only response at this time should be to state her statutary rights to keep chx. and see what response that gets.  Don't broaden the issue unless they do.

If they are are claiming nuisance or health grounds they would have needed to have done a prior inspection and issued a specific warning asking that you comply with specific conditions. If you fail to do so they can then demand that the chickens go but there's a lot of formal ground to cover before thay can do this.  The point is mammahen should not panic rush the issue and start to provide evidence and go to a lot of trouble to provide a defence on issues which have not been asked for.  Take it nice and slowly and respond only to the the specific claims and grounds they state with the very minimum of information needed to make your case.  Let them make the running.

This is general advice to anyone involved in such a dispute, providing extra information doesn't help and only provides the other party with additional grounds to attack.  I have had some experience with similar issues.

PS Dominic's post arrived while I sent this and I have to say I agree  with his suggested approach which is along the same lines I've outlined.  You should NOT anticipate their complaint by contacting the environment health officer or asking them for the tenancy conditions etc.  You have excellent grounds on which to fight this complaint stick to them.

HF

[Dominic]

Answer the question, only the question, and nothing but the question.

Soundest legal advice I've ever been given.

[hillfooter]

Agree but I don't think it is necessary or helpful to start posting the actual text of the letter publicly.  You have enough well meaning barrackroom lawyers advising and confusing you as it is.

HF

[hillfooter]

I should have also said don't become antagonistic or unduly combative. Make it it known that you are prepared to comply with any reasonable requests they may have which enable you to keep your birds. That then opens the door to a consensual agreement and will give them a reasonable opportunity to solve their problem without expensive recourse to law. If they say for example you mustn't keep cockerels and more than say 12 hens and will control any vermin just agree with giving more away than you need to that way they get to say they have gone something about it to any complainant.  Don't give away your bargaining concessions even if you never intend to keep more than two as pets don't offer to do that.  Don't give away more than you have to as you never know what you might want to do in the future and they will just ask for more.

Councils love compromises and to be seen as peace makers which in fact is the role we all want them to play so be willing to make some concessions.
HF

[helens-hens]

Hillfooter mentioned in an earlier post "All those who are going on about tenancy agreements and deeds are in fact irrelevant that is all contract law and Statute takes precedent".

I mentioned the bit about the deeds which is something I read on this forum before I got hens which made me look at the deeds of our house. I can see know in the extract from the Allotment Act that ANHBUC posted, the sentence "Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep...." that I was wasting my time!

Good luck with this Mammahen, it looks like you have the law on your side - let us know how it progresses

[storme37]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12679487

[orionsquare]

@ mammahen, if you need any assistance, please send me a private message I will see what I can do to help you.

[kegs]

@ mammahen, if you need any assistance, please send me a private message I will see what I can do to help you.

I don't think she will be able to as she has only made the one post and hasn't yet logged back on (I'm not sure of this but thought I remembered reading when I first joined that you have to have at least 10 posts before you can send a private message).  Hopefully someone in the know will be able to clarify.

[storme37]

pity she could have got the best advice available from orionsquare she would have been able to tell her exactly what she needs to know. oh well hopefully she can save her hens thats what counts.

[hillfooter]

@ mammahen, if you need any assistance, please send me a private message I will see what I can do to help you.

I don't think she will be able to as she has only made the one post and hasn't yet logged back on (I'm not sure of this but thought I remembered reading when I first joined that you have to have at least 10 posts before you can send a private message).  Hopefully someone in the know will be able to clarify.

There is a minimu number of posts you need to have made before you can pm though I'm not sure of the exact number, 10 sounds low unless it has changed recently.  The Mods can waive this in exceptional circumstances.  However it appears mammahen has not been back which as she appeared on here pleading for some help it's a shame she doesn't seem to have picked up the good advice people have already posted or acknowledged their help as well as keeping us informed on this topic which I'm sure a lot of folk will be interested in.
HF

[orionsquare]

shame, but mamahen may have got her answer and didn't need any further assistance from us.

[ANHBUC]

The post will always be useful to other members who might find themselves in the same position.  Forewarned is Forearmed and all that!   

[Aunt Sally]

@ mammahen, if you need any assistance, please send me a private message I will see what I can do to help you.

I don't think she will be able to as she has only made the one post and hasn't yet logged back on (I'm not sure of this but thought I remembered reading when I first joined that you have to have at least 10 posts before you can send a private message).  Hopefully someone in the know will be able to clarify.

I've tweaked the message system so that she will be able to contact orionsquare.