New plot is shallow.

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Benandbill

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New plot is shallow.
« on: November 22, 2011, 06:06 »
When I'm putting the fork in, it gets about  2 3rds of the way in the ground and is hitting big rocks.  I've dug over most of it which was quite a task as it's quite overgrown, but I wanted to do it before the frost kicks in.  I guess I'll have to bulk it up with a thick layer of animal dung.  Getting the rocks out would be a mammoth task and would probably take weeks even if my week days were free.

Still, I'm sure stuff should still grow and I'm chuffed I now have some extra space for growing.  Also have a bigger shed and room to put a greenhouse!!  :)

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Growster...

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2011, 06:27 »
That sounds a bit ominous Ben, and clearly, you're hitting on the right solution! A good heap up will make all the difference

Just to make sure, it's not a hard pan of subsoil is it, or is it spoil? Presumably you're getting good drainage though.

Give my best wishes to the home of the 'School of Mines'...;0)

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Benandbill

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2011, 07:01 »
Nice one Growster!  Don't know what subsoil or spoil is?  I'm guessing subsoil is what's under the topsoil?  I have a feeling someone who owned it once probably dumped the topsoil instead of turning it over when it was overgrown?  It's going to take a lot of hard work whatever the case.

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sunshineband

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2011, 08:48 »
It might feel like big rocks but it may be  ahrad pan of compacted soil with gravel ---- that is what was under my plot about ten to tewleve inches down.

If you can wiggle fork times in and start to break it up it will help a bit with drainage.

Big rocks of course could be dug out. We had masses of staones of all sizes and when lots were taken out our previously raised beds became sunken beds (much to everyone's amusement) but by adding compost, spent grow bags, small amount of manure - all we had- the soil is bulking up nicely now.

Having raised beds means we are improving growing areas only and not the paths :D
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Growster...

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 10:55 »
Nice one Growster!  Don't know what subsoil or spoil is?  I'm guessing subsoil is what's under the topsoil?  I have a feeling someone who owned it once probably dumped the topsoil instead of turning it over when it was overgrown?  It's going to take a lot of hard work whatever the case.

You're right Ben, the subsoil is the coarse, crunchy/hard layer about 8 - 12 inches down, as KC says above. I was just wondering if the plots you are on, aren't on reclaimed tips from the old mines yonks ago. It would have been an odd thing for the previous owner to have got rid of the topsoil though, so you may be in luck, and a bit of spade work could get through the hard layer, and you'll be away!

I don't know Pontypridd that well, but having seen other sites where mines were closed down a long time ago, there is still a lot of coal slag not far underground. Just a thought...

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JayG

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 11:10 »
I'd ask fellow plot-holders (if any) for their advice on the ground conditions and also dig at least one test hole at least 2' deep (using a pickaxe if necessary) to find out exactly what I was up against before planning my next move (the 1st option is much easier!)
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sunshineband

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 12:13 »
I'd ask fellow plot-holders (if any) for their advice on the ground conditions and also dig at least one test hole at least 2' deep (using a pickaxe if necessary) to find out exactly what I was up against before planning my next move (the 1st option is much easier!)

Excellent idea, that  :D :D

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Benandbill

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2011, 06:01 »
Thanks all for your responses.  There's definately big rocks / boulders under there as I dug 2 out when I hit them which wasn't easy, and I'd say they were about half the size of a football.  They're rounded / smooth edged as well and don't have jagged edges at all.  Maybe it's as our site is alongside the River Tafff, but that doesn't explain why this plot has the problem and our other plot, although stdoes not when this one is further up from the banking.

I shall take the advice of JayG first and seek the advice of some fellow plot holders.

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bigben

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2011, 10:13 »
As others have hinted, if your soil is shallow you could use raised beds and make them a bit deeper by thowing soil from the gaps between the beds as this is going to be path so it will not matter if it is stoney. Then as you get organic matter to add like compost, manure etc just put them in the raised beds which will conserve your resources. If you have access to lots of free manure then you could of course swamp the plot with it to increase depth over the whole plot. As the saying goes - "the plot thickens"   :nowink:

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whiskywill

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2011, 15:18 »
when this one is further up from the banking.

Is the land sloping? If your new plot is at the top of the slope, and, knowing how much it rains in Pontypridd, it would probably have lost some of its topsoil to those lower down.
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Benandbill

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2011, 20:52 »
bigben, that's not a bad idea on both counts.  I'm not overly keen on the idea of raised beds, but I do see where you're coming from with it.  The manure I got is £30 a trailer load but I reckon it would probably only cover half unless I spread it really thinly, then that would defeat the object - bulking it up.  I suppose I could try and find some free from somewhere?  Whiskywill, only the bank's on a slope, the rest of it's quite level.

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angelavdavis

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Re: New plot is shallow.
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 22:03 »
You have my sympathies.  Our site was originally a field which was then covered with the debris from the WWII bombing campaigns, had some topsoil put over it and turned into allotments.  My recommendation is to gradually increase the depth as you are doing with manure and other compost gradually developing raised beds.  I used the lasagne gardening method to increase the height of my beds - begging grass clippings, garden prunings and cardboard through freecycle and using manure from local stables.

We have the added complication that the field was used to grow onions in for 20 years and so we also have onion white rot in the soil!
Read about my allotment exploits at Ecodolly at plots 37 & 39.  Questions, queries and comments are appreciated at Comment on Ecodolly's exploits on plots 37 & 39



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