[Cheryl B]

Hi all

Very new to all this stuff, so I need some advice on alternative soil conditioners. Apart from manure, what vegetarian alternatives are there to fish and bone? I have some seaweed conditioner, but does it rate as well? 

Thankyou!!

[stompy]

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/factsheets/gs3.php

Green manures are good, just choose the right one for your situation.

There is a link above, or google it.

[richyrich7]

Yes Green manure's the trick
1) vegetarian
2) compares well to farmyard manure
3) seeds are a lot lighter to lug about 
4) safe from nasty weedkillers

You just have to remember to plan ahead and dig it in a few weeks before you want the land.

[PAH48]

Not forgetting Comfrey and Nettle tea...soaked in old bath or water butts..
Smelly but darn good liquid fertilizers.....

[Salmo]

If you just want to make the soil work better and retain moisture then the above advice is good.

If you want to add meaningful amounts of nutrients and do not want to use hoof and horn, fish and bone, etc you have probably got to use non-organic fertilizers such as growmore. These have no animal content and are derived from minerals and oil.

[Zippy]

I have been working the same piece of land for three years now veganically, that is without the use of animal manures (aprt from the weekly conributions of one pet rabbit whose droppings go into the compost heap and my own urine which I use as a compost activator) or artificial fertilizers and I am expecting a bumper harvest again next year.

Remeber that some vegetables (e.g. carrots) don't like rich soil and some (beans/peas) actually feed the soil and some just don't mind so long as the soil is well built with organic matter.

I tend to lump the entire contents of my compost bin onto the Potato bed in early spring on a four year rotation. This way each quarter of the plot gets a good input of organic matter and loads of nutrients.

The next year beans and squashes follow the same piece of land which will keep the Nitrogen up and the weeds down, ready for Brassicas and Onions the third year which like old Nitrogen and a firm soil - the soil will be well firmed from the previous year of beans because I cut the spent plants at soil level to let the roots break down over winter and I never dig so the soil is well settled for brassicas.

Once the Brassicas have finished the soil is quite low in nitrogen and that is fine as the fourth year is for Roots which are not a hungry family. Year five it all starts again as the plot gets the entire compost heap ready for potatoes.

My opinion is that by digging all the time you open up the soil and rain leaches out the nutrients making it essential to use artificial methods to build the nutrients up again. By leaving soil cultivation to the worms you keep the nutrients where you need them - in the soil, not the paths. I never stand on my beds so I dont need to till them.

I assure you - follow this method and you will never need animal manure or artificial nutrients.

Now wait for the barrage of replies on this thread telling me I'm wrong! Love to you all and an early warm springtime to you.

[hillbilly]

I'm absolutely with Zippy.
My veg have been grown veganically for 8 years now simply through lack of easy access to manure and a mistrust of chemical inputs.
My rotation puts onions after potatoes to use the open structure and residual nitrogen with a potash boost for the garlic (woodash).
Then peas and beans to replenish nitrogen with an under crop of clover to dig in.
Then the brassicas
Then the roots.
No digging other than digging up potatoes.
Add any plant based compost you can get hold of.
Seaweed is wonderful stuff on anything (I think?)
Leafmold also never the wrong thing to use tho low in nutrient.
Borage can be used like comfrey to great effect - lots of potash and trace elements.
Absolutely use your own urine as an activator.
I also read on here and like the idea of putting 'uncompostable' weeds such as dandelions in a tub of water to 'drown'. The liquid can be used as a feed - can't just find the thread...
Good luck and happy, healthy growing 

[robinsnest]

I have been working the same piece of land for three years now veganically, that is without the use of animal manures (aprt from the weekly conributions of one pet rabbit whose droppings go into the compost heap and my own urine which I use as a compost activator) or artificial fertilizers and I am expecting a bumper harvest again next year.

Remeber that some vegetables (e.g. carrots) don't like rich soil and some (beans/peas) actually feed the soil and some just don't mind so long as the soil is well built with organic matter.

I tend to lump the entire contents of my compost bin onto the Potato bed in early spring on a four year rotation. This way each quarter of the plot gets a good input of organic matter and loads of nutrients.

The next year beans and squashes follow the same piece of land which will keep the Nitrogen up and the weeds down, ready for Brassicas and Onions the third year which like old Nitrogen and a firm soil - the soil will be well firmed from the previous year of beans because I cut the spent plants at soil level to let the roots break down over winter and I never dig so the soil is well settled for brassicas.

Once the Brassicas have finished the soil is quite low in nitrogen and that is fine as the fourth year is for Roots which are not a hungry family. Year five it all starts again as the plot gets the entire compost heap ready for potatoes.

My opinion is that by digging all the time you open up the soil and rain leaches out the nutrients making it essential to use artificial methods to build the nutrients up again. By leaving soil cultivation to the worms you keep the nutrients where you need them - in the soil, not the paths. I never stand on my beds so I dont need to till them.

I assure you - follow this method and you will never need animal manure or artificial nutrients.

Now wait for the barrage of replies on this thread telling me I'm wrong! Love to you all and an early warm springtime to you.

Zippy, here is one for your barrage ... I couldn't agree with you more This is how I grow my veg except substitute the bunny poop for chickens

[hillbilly]

(PS
I now have chickens so their manure will go on the plot but it's been fine without)

[Cheryl B]

thanks to you all!! I've read LOAAAAAADDDDSSS about all of these methods and it's great to know that actual proper real people use them and they work. Hurrah! I'm as excited as an excited thing - I just want the snow to shoo so I can get down to my patch and get on with it!  Hee he hee!!!

[Zippy]

Zippy, here is one for your barrage ... I couldn't agree with you more

Well that's something you don't see every day - thanks guys, nice to see there's a few more of us out there 

[Clover]

Here's an in depth document which I posted in a previous thread.

Green manures - by the Vegan Organic Network 2005
http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=53

I think there are a lot of positives to doing this kind of thing.

But, there is a slight problem in that the practitioners of this with small-holdings say you need to dedicate a percentage of land to growing green manure for compost too (maybe not in this doc but in their books).  I'm not sure household scraps are enough to replace that, for me at least.

[PAH48]

Good Thread....congrats one and all...

[mumofstig]

Just wondering.....why is chicken manure and bunny manure ok......but not the other animal manures

[hillbilly]

Personally, mumofstig, I have no problem with animal products on the plot - I might even consider it the natural way of things - but I just haven't had access to a good source of manure from animals fed an organic diet.
And I'm way too stingy to buy anything I don't really need so I was 'veganic' by default  .

Now I have the chooks I'll have to be careful not to over fertilise the plot - I believe too much nitrogen is not good even from an 'organic' source. It causes soft sappy growth prone to disease and attractive to pests and can leach out into the ground water etc. etc.

This is only a personal perspective and I'm sure many here prefer not to use animal products for moral reasons.

And by the way... are you really the Stigs mum??