[Lardman]

I've had the LGO report today.

The nub of the issue is that I have seen no evidence to support the claim that what happened
caused your mother injustice.

I am very angry - no - I am furious.

Tonight I will be spending my time practising my best Anglo Saxon whilst I decide on what to do next.

[Plot 1 Problems]

What are your options for taking up the services of the learned friends?

[New shoot]

For what it is worth, I think you have every right to be furious.

If they can't see how Mother Lard was caused injustice, can they not see how you were by default?  One of the prime duties of any ombudsman is to make good the mistakes, so you end up back where you would have been, if they hadn't happened.  ML didn't get the visits and time she was supposed to get from her carers, but are they saying that because you saw the problems and organised extra care, it was OK?  You have solid monetary amounts you can show as evidence that it wasn't.

It hardly seems fair that you should be penalised for stepping in when there was clearly a need to.

[Lardman]

Still furious this morning....

ML didn't get the visits and time she was supposed to get from her carers, but are they saying that because you saw the problems and organised extra care, it was OK? 

Worse - the report states is that she DID get the care she required and therefore there was no wrong doing. I have absolutely no clue what the council have given to the LGO that would make the investigating officer think a 4 minute care call was sufficient time.

I can only think of 2 possible reasons :
The council have lied about the call times to the LGO (I'd already provided the correct data on a spreadsheet) .
The LGO is covering for the council just as the council covered for the care company.

I sent the officer an email last night with more information in and I'll follow it up today with a call, but I'm getting the distinct impression they see no wrong-doing because they don't want to. If this is the case then no amount of reasoned argument or evidence will make any difference and I'm flogging a dead horse.

[New shoot]

I'm only guessing, but is it linked to their definition of injustice?  You have to prove you were put in a worse position, so if useless care company say all ML needed or wanted was a 4 minute care call on such and such a day, you have to prove this had a concrete effect on her for the ombudsman to rule in your favour.   Their role is pretty narrow in that respect.   

That's why I wondered if you would have a case as you were forced to compensate for their lack of care to your financial detriment.  Perhaps a consultation with a solicitor in this area might be an idea, just so you can have a full picture of the options. 

The council should have dealt with the complaints about the standard of care provided and I'd agree it looks like a major case of bottom covering there.   The LGO may just be bound by the ties of their own mandate.  That doesn't mean legal action against the council isn't out of the question, but you need to know if it is going to be worthwhile before committing to that.

[Goosegirl]

I'm trying to think of something to say that isn't going to be deleted by the mods but am failing in that respect! All I can say is that I'm glad you can come on here and talk about it.

[snowdrops]

Oh Lards, I feel your pain I really do. I suppose it depends how much fight you’ve got left in you to be honest. When my mum died we had cause to complain to PALS at the hospital,not about her treatment as that was excellent but about what happened afterwards at the bereavement office. My sister & I drafted a letter & weeks later had a reply, stating they were sorry that they hadn’t replied in the time frame but would investigate our complaints. Some 6 months later we were told that nothing had been done that shouldn’t have been. By this time we had been having a really tough time with other family members & I’m afraid we just gave up, it went against the grain but we could see it was just going to cause us more pain & suffering . Our initial concern was that it didn’t happen to anyone else, but over 6 months later we were so battered & bruised from the ramifications of that office (that in fairness they weren’t to know of) that we just had to go quietly & luck our wounds. I do wish we’d had it in us to put up more of a fight. I sincerely wish you well but I cannot see how you are going to get them to admit either wrong doing or responsibility.

[mrs bouquet]

Oh Lards, I am just lost for words as to what to say.    I have been through similar probs with this type of thing and 'other difficult family members'.   Just don't make yourself ill over it, that won't help.  Best wishes, Mrs Bouquet

[Lardman]

I post for entirely selfish reasons  it's helpful for me to vent but also to get perspective. I know that just because I think something is as clear as day and night, that doesn't mean it is or someone else sees it as so.

I'm only guessing, but is it linked to their definition of injustice?  You have to prove you were put in a worse position, so if useless care company say all ML needed or wanted was a 4 minute care call on such and such a day, you have to prove this had a concrete effect on her for the ombudsman to rule in your favour. 

You may be right on that Shoots, and it's something I didn't consider. I would have expected the investigating officer to have investigated the lack of service associated with the short calls rather than me having to state exactly what they failed to do.  Yesterday I asked the LGO to clarify why there is no evidence and what they would consider evidence, which feels like a reasonable thing for me to ask them.

Worryingly and perhaps why I'm tending toward bottom covering, was the LGO's lack of concern that complaints procedures weren't followed and that even though I'd provided written evidence of the social workers lying to me (and I don't use that word lightly) it wasn't wrong as they apologised for it when they were caught.

It's very difficult to prove any financial loss on my behalf as I'm self employed and my income is variable anyway, so that's a bit of a none starter.

I'll keep at it but every time I do they retaliate and it impacts ML, I'm under safeguarding investigation again now as it is.

[mrs bouquet]

When they made that 4 minute call to ML, what exactly was the time allowed on the care-plan and what should they have done in the allocated time.    The reason I ask is because, sometimes Mum's carers would arrive and only be there a very short while, having failed to do anything other than perhaps make her a cuppa. I subsequently would find out, that although she said they hadn't done anything, it was because she said she "didn't want them to do anything", because she was too tired, too poorly, too grumpy, etc   . So I was just wondering.   Mrs Bouquet

[New shoot]

I had a very similar situation last year Mrs B, when my mother had carers for a few weeks.  She would moan and whine to me, but it turned out she was playing us off against each other.  I'm not suggesting for a second that ML has done the same Lardman, but it is something all the professionals in the field will have seen many times. It would wash as a reason given for short calls and why you have a different version of events to them.

Re, the ombudsman, I'm remembering stuff from the financial services ombudsman from a previous life doing an office job, but in general they don't tend to comment on the way things were done, just focus on the outcome and what they define as injustice.  The have powers to do stuff, but their remit is far narrower than you would assume it was.  Asking them for clarification should hopefully help.  What about the CAB or are there carers charities/social media groups you could tap for info?

As for posting/venting/just letting that exasperation have an outlet, well that is what the forum does.  We may only be virtual friends, but sometimes that makes it easier to just get it out of your system and you can get a mix of views back, some empathy and feel you are not so alone with your rock to push up a hill.  It has helped me a number of times 

[snowdrops]

I post for entirely selfish reasons  it's helpful for me to vent but also to get perspective. I know that just because I think something is as clear as day and night, that doesn't mean it is or someone else sees it as so.





And please continue to do so, I think we all see this forum as a means to the above

[snowdrops]

I post for entirely selfish reasons  it's helpful for me to vent but also to get perspective. I know that just because I think something is as clear as day and night, that doesn't mean it is or someone else sees it as so.

And please continue to do so, I think we all see this forum as a means to do just the same & in the situation you find yourself in I’m sure you need another or 3 viewpoints. As for being under investigation re safeguarding I find that totally preposterous but having worked with vulnerable families for many years I just feel sorry you’ve got tangled up in a system that works in a very misguided way sometimes, knowing the difficulties we had to get children away from families that were damaging them in more ways than one. Our social care team once (not the only time I’m sure) wrote to a family to ask if they were as had been reported keeping their child locked in a cupboard 🤬 even more ironical they were illiterate, crazy.
I wish you the very best & the strength to keep on.

[grinling]

Only seen bits and pieces but bear with me.
Call if on the landline or mobile phone, install a recording device, inform the care company you are doing so.
Install recordable cctv in your mums rooms, company does not need to know this

[Lardman]

Install recordable cctv in your mums rooms, company does not need to know this

Funny you should say that, having done this already, yesterdays safegaurding investigation was about it and the usual control and coercion manure they use to remove me from the interview.  At least this time they didn't try and tell her they were illegal, ML gave the officers short shrift but we had the usual, we have the legal right to do this, we need to interview you alone etc etc etc. very upsetting for her.

After every complaint I have raised about [useless company] there has been a safegaurding investigation into me, the council refuse to release information about the investigations even under article 15 claiming the "serious  harm" exception, this prevents me taking action to stop it.

I would have a little more sympathy if a child was involved, but ML is an adult with full capacity in her own home. I know the response they'd get if they told me they were coming to interview me in my house. 

I had a very similar situation last year Mrs B, when my mother had carers for a few weeks.  She would moan and whine to me, but it turned out she was playing us off against each other. ..... It would wash as a reason given for short calls and why you have a different version of events to them.

It's all on CCTV, there's a written agreed plan for each call  Plan and Camera don't match and not just with ML related tasks.

Yesterdays response from the LGO.

The issue for me, now that you have clarified matters, is that the injustice your are claiming in relation to the complaint I have investigated ([Useless Company] carers not staying for the required time and not meeting your mother's care needs), is the same as the allegation raised under [complaint number] which is subject to a safeguarding investigation

[complaint number] is NOT the complaint I referred to the LGO, it is from 2 months before, so can not cover the same issues - although similar. It is still open at the council after 7 months as such the LGO won't get involved so I haven't referred it to them. The complaint I did refer to them wasn't open and hadn't been anywhere near safeguarding.

Head burying or bottom covering? I know which I think.