Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 09:52

Title: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 09:52
At the back of my shed, I have a hole, I know its rats, I have a box which I seem to be filling every day with poison

I have gone through 2Kg containers so far

I have used various kinds, the usual standard blue covered wheat stuff and this new pasta flavoured stuff (the rentokil stuff)

Am I just feeding them or is it actually killing them ?

How long does rat poison take to wipe out a rat colony ?

I have no idea how many there are

I have tried the sonic things (I think they actually enjoy that)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 10:39
I guess they would have to see them?

I have  never seen them at any time, night or day, just where they eat the poison and a small pile of dirt where they dig
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: dentman on March 08, 2015, 11:20
A good rat man will now his stuff, i personally use a trail cam to monitor a new shoot, its basically a self contained motion activated infra red camouflaged camera. I bait an area and leave the camera there for a couple of days to see what sort of activity there is.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 11:50
as the hole is behind the shed, it would be very tight, but I will be taking down part of the coop (the back wall) to try and stop the * digging into the run

Going to put a new roof and back wall on it,over Easter (with luck)



(couldnt find those people on FB)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 13:55
So am I just feeding these rats or are they just going off to die somewhere ?

How much of this rat poison am I going to have to use ?
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: New shoot on March 08, 2015, 14:55
They do go off to die Pepsi, so its hard to monitor how many you have left to deal with, apart from the amount of bait being taken.

We had a problem at work when they started building houses on the waste ground behind us and our rat man went through kilos of bait.  We didn't see any dead bodies, but the amount of bait in the bait stations gradually started to drop off.

Is it worth checking with the neighbours to see if they have noticed holes around and about.  A few bait stations spread over several gardens might see them off sooner.  Its also worth checking who is feeding the birds and whether they are chucking feed on the ground.  Our old neighbour was a great one for this and we had hoards of feral pigeons around and she had rats under her shed. 

When she moved, the new owner stopped feeding the pigeons, noticed the holes under the shed and dealt with the rats and now we seem free of both  :)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 15:06
Nope my neighbors dont feed birds, there are lots of holes in fences, mainly on both sides of me, yes there is a hole under my shed, its where I put the poison, I have also got a covered rat poison station (because I cant get behind the shed, they dont touch the poison in the rat station, I dont think they know its there

So its a case of feeding them the poison until they dont take any more ?

I can see this is going to be expensive, at least they cant get in the coop :)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: New shoot on March 08, 2015, 15:41
So its a case of feeding them the poison until they dont take any more ?

That's pretty much what our rat man said, but at least your coop is safe  :)  We saw a couple of rats in the garden when the old neighbour moved out and the supply of bird feed dried up.  Luckily our runs are not easy to get into so they stayed out of them.  I think our new neighbour got shot of them pretty quick with bait, but maybe it was only a small colony  :unsure:

The only other option is traps.  One of the plot holders on my site took this route as he had rats in his garden after the council decided to dig up a bramble covered verge next to his house and disturbed them all.

He caught loads, but then you have to dispose of the bodies.  Plus you need to be really careful where you put the traps so you don't get other more welcome wildlife. 
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 08, 2015, 15:42
We've had very good results with eradibate.

http://www.eradibait.com
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 15:46
Cant really use traps, the chooks wander around a bit too much, plus I dont want the wild birds to get caught by them
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 15:51
We've had very good results with eradibate.

http://www.eradibait.com


How much does it cost ?
I looked on the map, nowhere near me sells it, do they have an online store ?
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Sassy on March 08, 2015, 16:17
The stuff we buy over the counter can take a while to work. You will need to carry on until no more is taken. Despite the expense it would be a shame to stop now as they may be nearly sorted! :wacko:
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 08, 2015, 16:18
We've had very good results with eradibate.

http://www.eradibait.com


How much does it cost ?
I looked on the map, nowhere near me sells it, do they have an online store ?

I've bought it from Amazon before but you could try http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Eradibait-Rat/productinfo/ERADIBAIT/3KG/
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 16:27
Looks like its been discontinued on both websites, so it must have been good, they only stop selling stuff that works :mad:
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 08, 2015, 17:08
That's odd  :wacko:
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 08, 2015, 17:53
I've e-mailed them for an online supplier.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 08, 2015, 18:39
I've e-mailed them for an online supplier.

Oh, I asked for their nearest supplier/seller to me
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 08, 2015, 19:11
Well at least one of us ahould get a useful answer  :lol:
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: mumofstig on March 08, 2015, 19:18
Somewhere deep in the depths, I seem to remember it being - not banned as such but discontinued, I suppose is what you'd say   :unsure:
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 09, 2015, 14:50
I'e had a reply today from eradibate.com



We currently have no stock of EradiBait and donít know of any stockist that still have stock. we hope this will be rectified by the middle of March
Our licence lapsed and we were not going renew BUT due to demand of our product we have had a change of heart and waiting for our shipment to arrive from the USA where it is made.
Please keep an eye on our website.

In the mean time I would like to direct you to web sites that have similar brands of natural rat/mouse baits.
www.stvpestcontrol.com  product: Big Cheese natural active rat & mouse bait.
www.scotts.com product: Home defence advanced rat & mouse killer.

Best regards...
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 09, 2015, 14:54
That is the same one I got  :) :) :)

I tried the scott website, seems to be more about lawncare
The other website is very crowded and seems hard to navigate around
Think I'll wait until they get stocks in I'll contact them again in a week or so

I'e had a reply today from eradibate.com



We currently have no stock of EradiBait and don’t know of any stockist that still have stock. we hope this will be rectified by the middle of March
Our licence lapsed and we were not going renew BUT due to demand of our product we have had a change of heart and waiting for our shipment to arrive from the USA where it is made.
Please keep an eye on our website.

In the mean time I would like to direct you to web sites that have similar brands of natural rat/mouse baits.
www.stvpestcontrol.com  product: Big Cheese natural active rat & mouse bait.
www.scotts.com product: Home defence advanced rat & mouse killer.

Best regards...
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 09, 2015, 16:21
I used those product names and found

Home defence rat and mouse killer (http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/home-defence-advanced-rat-and-mouse-killer---300g-038959?cm_mmc=PPC-_-Summit-Google-_-NonBrand-_-PLA&_$ja=cgid:14580048616|tsid:49590|cid:323070736|lid:18283950120|nw:g|crid:56351659936|rnd:11457359950003737121|dvc:t|adp:1o3|bku:1)

And Big Cheese Mouse and Rat bait (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cheese-Natural-Active-Mouse-Killer/dp/B0060LSBYK)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 09, 2015, 16:57
They are going to let me know when stocks arrive

Hello Derrick

Happy to keep your details on file.

Will inform you as soon as available.

Best regards

Barbara

Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Aunty on March 09, 2015, 17:00
That's good :D
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: meterman on March 09, 2015, 22:42
please be aware vitamin k is the antidote for rat poison and chicken feed contains vitamin k so any loose feed means poison rats with 1 feed cure them with second. traps bated with peanut butter is far better but always put traps in a tunnel  i use old laminate floor board leant against walls with bricks to stop it falling over
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 09, 2015, 22:51
When the hatch goes down the feed comes in, when the hatch goes up the feed goes out, what little there is on the floor the chickens clean up

Apart from the mud they tread in, there isnt a trace of feed on the floor

I just pour a cup full of this poison into the entrance/exit hole, a couple of hours, its all gone

Used 2 x 1Kg tubs so far, now just going to open number 3 in the morning  :(
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: barley on March 10, 2015, 04:31
I had this problem back in January pepsi

I used slaymor blue grain rat bait you can buy it in large 20kg tubs http://www.farmanimalhealth.co.uk/slaymor

Like you I kept putting it down and it kept getting eaten daily - to my horror we killed over 8 rats in total over a period of 2 months  :ohmy:

they varied in size and age so I guess we had some serious breeding going on

keep an eye out in any warm hay or wood shaving areas as I found 3 went into these places to die

I also set a large snapper rat trap where the chooks couldn't get to it - I smeared it with butter and managed to catch 1 in there

keep putting bait down daily it will work but I think once you have 1 it encourages others so it may take several weeks to get on top of the problem , I now keep bait down under a bucket with a hole in and pleased to report no signs of rats for over 6 weeks now  ;)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Sassy on March 10, 2015, 08:38
When the hatch goes down the feed comes in, when the hatch goes up the feed goes out, what little there is on the floor the chickens clean up

Apart from the mud they tread in, there isnt a trace of feed on the floor

I just pour a cup full of this poison into the entrance/exit hole, a couple of hours, its all gone

Used 2 x 1Kg tubs so far, now just going to open number 3 in the morning  :(

Ideally you need to have a little poison left in the morning to ensure they are getting the maximum amount every night. This should help speed things up and in the long run use less poison :)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 10, 2015, 08:44
Just been out there, was going to feed the rats with more poison (I think they expect it now, treat it like breakfast)

There is still some left at the entrance, not very much  :)

So I gave them some of this pasta poison (they seem to take that, maybe its the smell) dropped them straight in the entrance/exit :)

I have found a big hole in the run now, the chooks seem rather interested in it, so going to smooth the area and put down a sticky track under a box
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Beano on March 10, 2015, 16:39
I use Tomcat, that's pretty useful. We had the rat-man out initially to get rid, which took 10/14 days. I bought a bucketful of Tomcat and drop one down any suspicious holes, with wire attached and that seems to do the trick.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 10, 2015, 17:40
Never heard of Tomcat, :(
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: joyfull on March 11, 2015, 08:26
Remember to please be very careful when using rat poisons, one of my Newfoundlands caught, killed and ate a rat they had just eaten rat poison - I can only assume the rat was making it's way back to it's nest at the time but the rat internals that we saw her finishing off were very fresh and bright red. My girl had to be rushed to the vets at 11pm at night for emergency treatment. She had to have 4 very large vitamin K injections plus 7 days of tablets (had to be high doses because she weighs 45kgs). Blood samples were sent off to determin if it was rat poison and also her clotting time - the scale for this goes up to 50 (normal is around 6 or 7) her reading was way off the chart - so bad that they couldn't get a proper reading only that it was way over 50. Another sample was sent off a week after and she was back to normal, but had she been a smaller dog then she wouldn't still be with us.
We are very careful where we have always placed our poison - it is never where the dogs or chickens could get it and before the chickens or dogs get up in the morning I always do a dead animal search incase any have died on the way back to or from their nests, but this happened late at night straight after a rat had eaten it.
Some people I have spoken to (including some farmers we know) have been told by their vets that a dog would have to eat several rats before they would need treatment - have since put them right over that, 1 rat can mean death.
Another friend had to rush his dog to the vets after his dog chewed his bait station (the large green boxes that are used by the professional rat baiters), they didn't know how much bait had been left in there when the dog got it  but they wasn't going to risk their dog having eaten a whole block of bait and got the vitamin injections.
Another thing you need to know with your poison is if it is a first or second generation bait - mine was a first generation so luckily her treatment was easier - 2nd generation needs stronger doses of vitamin K and for longer and people may not be so lucky with the outcome.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 11, 2015, 08:42
I dont have a dog or any of my neighbours, but we do have foxes (and if they want to munch on a dead rat they are welcome)

I am just pouring the poison into the entrance/exit hole, which is behind the the shed, the chooks cant get behind there, I havent put any poison in the run, I have just put a large sheet of mesh over the whole area, and there is another hole under it, nothing has got through the mesh or dug any other hole I can find
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: LotuSeed on March 11, 2015, 14:14
I agree with joyful's advice about taking care with its use and knowing what other animals can be harmed as a result.  You might not mind if it kills a fox after it's eaten a poisoned rat, but that's not what the intended purpose of it. Rat poison can also kill other wildlife, namely raptors, who feed on rodents (and they can't differentiate between one that's been poisoned and one that's fine to eat. Good luck getting a handle on the situation, I can only imagine how frustrating and destructive a rat infestation can be.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Sparkyrog on March 11, 2015, 14:35
Never heard of Tomcat, :(
I use tomcat it tends to be very effective ! . I did however buy two purpose made bait stations , which I find very good !
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: New shoot on March 12, 2015, 09:08
Never heard of Tomcat, :(

It's active ingredient is bromadiolone, which used to be professional use only, but a quick search on bromadiolone rate poison shows there are now some approved versions for home use.

It has been reported quite heavily as being involved in accidental poisonings of pets and wildlife.  I know you are careful, but I'd be extra careful if you buy some  ;)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 12, 2015, 09:23
So far this rentokil stuff might be working, went out this morning, its still there, it looks like the same amount I put down last night (but as I cant get behind the shed I am not sure
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 13, 2015, 18:41
Still got a pile of rat poison in the hole, but I was digging over the chicken run and I found 3 packets of this pasta based rat poison, it would seem the rats have tunneled under the run and popped up outside the run as I never found any holes in the run

Just thought it was strange finding these 3 packets of pasta based in a tunnel (which I never even knew was there)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: RubyR3d on March 15, 2015, 08:19
Still got a pile of rat poison in the hole, but I was digging over the chicken run and I found 3 packets of this pasta based rat poison, it would seem the rats have tunneled under the run and popped up outside the run as I never found any holes in the run

Just thought it was strange finding these 3 packets of pasta based in a tunnel (which I never even knew was there)
.  Oh pepsi the same thing happened to me. They were coming in from next door straight into the coop. Next to the fencing I have an area where I grow veg. My hubby dug it over and it was like an archealogical dig. The tunnel started by next door, under the hen run through the whole veg patch, under a stone step and out round the back of the pond. Through the veg patch it was nearly 5 inch deep.! The whole thing was about 25 ft. I felt sick. I've been next door where the hole is and put some poison down under some pallets where there is freshly dug soil.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Lastcast on March 15, 2015, 16:14
Pepsi, If you're not squeamish I would also invest in a couple of good snap traps, every little helps when it comes to rats. I always set mine with peanut butter & grain, secure to the ground with a wire peg and most important cover with a 30 inch tunnel, you can make these with some lengths of wood, make sure they're high enough to allow the trap to snap !! Also fill the ends, just allowing a couple of inches clearance, this will stop inquisitive hens & other birds. Set the traps along a wall or along the edge of your run (inside or out).
I always use surgical gloves when disposing of the dead rats, they or their urine carries the nasty Weill's Disease. 
Mind your fingers and good luck.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: Lastcast on March 15, 2015, 16:26
Just wanted to add, I had awful problems with a Rat plague late last year, mostly from my neighbours hen coop, he had an open feeder, so soon as his back was turned it was a free buffet for the rats, never really bothered me until he disposed of his old girls !! The rats then started to pay me a visit. Long and short of it, I trapped/killed over 40 in a couple of months. Luckily we have a well organised & run field, so they had the vermin control people put poison down responsibly. Haven't seen a rat since Christmas but I know they'll be back !!
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: themagicaltoad1 on March 16, 2015, 21:00
We seem to have very choosy rats in our garden. They won't touch Eradibait, or the blue coloured wheat bait but they seem to love the red coloured wheat. Haven't seen one for a few days now and there's still bait about so I'm hoping we've wiped them out. The problem is that they live in my neighbour's garden and come under the fence into ours. We've told her this but she won't do anything about them, her garden is a jungle with lots of sheds and woodpiles for them to hide in.
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on March 16, 2015, 22:36
There is still rat bait in the hole, but after the rain I have put down some fresh (I cant get behind the shed to cover it up)

I think they come from my neighbors garden as well, the bottom of her fence has rotted away in places and she has one of these lights that come on with movement, I don't know if its the rats that are bring on the light

I have dug down at the end of the shed (which goes to the run) and put in a 12 inch ceramic tile, then dug down a further 6 inches and put in some welded mesh, so the rats have to tunnel down 18 inches to get into the run (I hope this works)

I haven't seen any more holes in the run though, I have dug it over now, just to break up this tunnel network

(I dont really know where it went or how long it was)
Title: Re: Rats, vermin, but they are just a pest
Post by: pepsi100 on April 02, 2015, 23:29
It has been over a week now since the last lot of poison went down and its still there, I havent found any more holes in the run, MAYBE the problem has now died, but I never found any bodies

I think they crawled away to where ever they go to die

Meanwhile, I have dug down 18 inches (give or take a couple of inches) and put wire mesh around all the likely places they may get through, including where I found the tunnel

I hope the problem has been cured now, it has been a long and expensive process (4 Kg of rat poison,) a lot of digging, I have lots of wire mesh left over, but I daresay I shall find a use for it

Thanks everyone for tips, links and suggestions