Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Eating and Drinking => Homebrew => Topic started by: Auntiemogs on August 09, 2013, 22:15
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I thought I'd start up this thread as a useful way of keeping track of what works (and what doesn't), as quite a lot of useful info has been posted on various threads.
If anyone would like to chip in with their thoughts, they would be most welcome. :)
Glass bottles, plastic bottles (soft drink, milk cartons), corks (traditional and plastic) and screwtops.
To start the ball rolling, I took delivery of my Polypins today. I'm collecting screwtop wine bottles but having recently bought some 30 bottle kits on offer, I don't think I'll have enough storage space! I was looking for something not too expensive and reusable that will keep my wine in good condition until I drink it ( ::)).
I looked at 'bag in box' systems but they were fairly expensive as you could only re-use them a few times.
So, after a bit of research, it seemed that the consensus was a Polypin. It's a reuseable bag which deflates as you empty it, so air doesn't get in and spoil the wine. It has a cap, which goes on for storage and a tap for when you want to start decanting.
I ordered them online and initially was a bit shocked at the price (as the site didn't say that the prices were without VAT) but this is what I got for my £40.....will look around if I buy more...
Picture is of 2 x 10L Polypins (heavy plastic and I think these will last for ages, comes with cap, tap and dispenser box)
4 x 5L Polypins (supplied with cap and 'push thumb' dispenser, not such heavy gauge but much thicker than a tradiditonal bag in box so should last a fair while, also supplied with a dispenser box)
Mags
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could be difficult to sterelise.
I leave my wine in demijohns until bottles become available. I have currently 12-13 of them...most are fruit from last year due to be bottled Oct/Nov, with 4 being fruit juice wines and another 4 demijohns down stairsdue for racking.
Have about 30-40 bottles in airing cupboard.
Mainly use screwtop, but also have plastic corks and also brown plastic screwtop bottles from a beer kit.
Good source of bottles is a restaurant.
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Looks good.
The 5L polypins will let you decant a bottle to last a few days. Thats about 6 bottles isn't it?
The 10L ones will let you store wine for weeks before you transfer it to bottles later on.
Ive sort of found out that plastic is good for six months. If you want years then you need glass. Also I suspect that screwtops are a fairly short life, in months. So, to build a cellar put 5 or 6 glass bottles, with corks, neck down into deep archive. Plan to drink the remaining 24 over the current year.
I'll be interested in what the others say.
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Think it'll be really easy to sterilise Grinling as I'll just give them a quick sloosh for a few mins. I really don't have space for lots of DJs but can probably squeeze these in behind the odd sofa... :)
Looks good.
The 5L polypins will let you decant a bottle to last a few days. Thats about 6 bottles isn't it?
The 10L ones will let you store wine for weeks before you transfer it to bottles later on.
Ive sort of found out that plastic is good for six months. If you want years then you need glass. Also I suspect that screwtops are a fairly short life, in months. So, to build a cellar put 5 or 6 glass bottles, with corks, neck down into deep archive. Plan to drink the remaining 24 over the current year.
I'll be interested in what the others say.
Thanks Bob. I've tried to find out the storage life of wine in a polypin but nowt so far... I'm sure that 'with a little help from my friends' it won't take a year ;) but I do plan to lay a few down to see how they do (corks on the ready!).
As an aside, I had to decant the new iBrew kit yesterday. It was supposed to take around 10 days but I guess with the warm weather, there was no movement after 5. Have to say that I had a wee snifter and even then, was at least £5 supermarket level. Hoping the Muntons and Cellar 7 are equally good. :tongue2:
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As an aside, I had to decant the new iBrew kit yesterday. It was supposed to take around 10 days but I guess with the warm weather, there was no movement after 5. Have to say that I had a wee snifter and even then, was at least £5 supermarket level. Hoping the Muntons and Cellar 7 are equally good. :tongue2:
Have you got a hydrometer?. If yes the kit will tell you the first fermentation gravity. It will be below 1.010. Rot it down to what they say. I no longer use a bubbler in a plastic FV it just doesn't need it, so bubbles are not a good test. (In a demijohn, glass, this is still required but a plastic FV has more than enough give in it.
If no hydrometer then it should taste very dry, or leave it for ten days anyway, nothing to loose.
If you rack it into plastic once again that will be enough give.
Modern wine kits are equal to if not better that £7 supermarket wines. That is true for reds. Whites are more difficult, its hard to get rid of the yellow colours without finings and filters. If you drink a slightly yellow white it will taste ok but more fruity than a bought wine. But your friends may not like it, because it will look different.
Make a few reds before you embark on a white.
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Have you got a hydrometer?. If yes the kit will tell you the first fermentation gravity. It will be below 1.010. Rot it down to what they say. I no longer use a bubbler in a plastic FV it just doesn't need it, so bubbles are not a good test. (In a demijohn, glass, this is still required but a plastic FV has more than enough give in it.
If no hydrometer then it should taste very dry, or leave it for ten days anyway, nothing to loose.
If you rack it into plastic once again that will be enough give.
Modern wine kits are equal to if not better that £7 supermarket wines. That is true for reds. Whites are more difficult, its hard to get rid of the yellow colours without finings and filters. If you drink a slightly yellow white it will taste ok but more fruity than a bought wine. But your friends may not like it, because it will look different.
Make a few reds before you embark on a white.
Yes, I have a hydrometer but the kit showed no further signs of life (and tasted fairly good) so I decanted it anyway (not that I can use a hydrometer ::), I just looked for the yellow bit with the mexican beer - the sooner they bring out a digital version the better imho).
Oddly enough, there was no bubble kit, which surprised me...and there was no rot limit but I just went with the flow...time will tell I guess...
I have to say that I do like dedicated kit (although I still haven't found a use for the blue 'widget' supplied - maybe it's part of the airlock system? :lol:) but that's just me (it is a nice blue colour and has a tap at the bottom, which is very useful for decanting).
I have taken your advice and I shall save the Chardonnay kit until I am comfortable, which may be some time (and many bottles) yet. :D
Potential "Cheers". :)
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Auntie,
Run the hydrometer under a very hot tap.
Drop it into the mix, I give it a spin.
Notice were the fluid level is, just its location, don't try to read it.
Take it out.
Put your nail where the fluid level was. (You can do that as you take it out if you like)
You can find 1.000. yes so just see how close it got, it should be just below the 1.000.
If you do it at the start of the kit your looking at 1.070
At the end 0.990, or just under 1.000
If you put wine that has not finished into glass it could blow the cork or even the bottle.
If you put it into plastic then I think it will be ok but might pour a bit fizzy, like beer does. CO2 trapped in the bottle.
Also after the first fermentation, its best to move it into a large container. Roll it around to get a foam, then stand it a few hours. Keep rolling and standing till the foam is very reduced. This removes any trapped CO2. Fizzy drinks contain trapped CO2. Wine is normally not fizzy.
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I really must furtle out my brewing book as it has a temperature compensation chart but tbh, I'm far too tired in the hot weather. Tis excellent to have a shortcut though Bob, so many thanks for that. :)
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Hehehe! I know I'll get told off but... ::) :D :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDETEPYS3Hs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDETEPYS3Hs)
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Yes you probably will. ;) ;) ;)
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Well, in that case...
Love Santana, my favourite
brewing music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9eAl4fp32c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9eAl4fp32c) :D
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That lead guitar was wonderful, the pace of the entire song was underplayed perfectly. Brilliant stuff.
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You guys are on a roll here.. :lol: as I've upped my wine making I also need to look for better storage. I've always had enough bottles to cover whatever I've brewed, but this year now we have our allotment I'm making way way more than I've ever done. So I need to take a good look at what's out there, looking forward to what you make of your PP auntie, maybe half of doz of them would be the answer?.
Last Sat I did buy a new 25lts barrel with a screw top from Wilkos....I'm wondering if these maybe the way to go?? you can add a tap easy...but then as you draw off air needs to enter the top, not a good idea. With my beer I use Corni Kegs, you gas them no problems. I thought about maybe using a CK for the large brews that I've done, at the moment I've got 50lts of rhubarb half done, with another 25lts waiting in the wings, but I'm not sure about sparkling rhubarb....but there again it could be great ;)
On top of all this..(84lts in total over 8 fruit wines) tomorrow we're collecting a fruit press, we've been given about 100yds of grapes from a fellow plot owner, he never picks them so he's offered them to us for the odd bottle. We off this morning to see a very small orchard that we've been told to use, a few apple trees and one pear (perry) and a walnut tree, where we're going to find the time from I don't know....but we will :lol:
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Sounds like you're going into production Capt! :D
Rhubarb wine sounds lovely. :tongue2:
There are 20L PPs available too but sounds like you need to buy in bulk...... ;)
http://www.baginboxonline.co.uk/buyit1.html (http://www.baginboxonline.co.uk/buyit1.html)
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Do storage and wine - make sense :unsure:
I seem to drink it as quickly as I get it :wub:
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Do storage and wine - make sense :unsure:
I seem to drink it as quickly as I get it :wub:
Ah Mos, well, After the first FV, you need to put it someware to start the second deeper process "matricll...." something. This takes the wine to the high levels that you expect. What you buy has been through that process. However I do find that cellar 7 can be drunk after about 20 days very easily. So you need to be 30 odd bottles ahead of yourself. :D
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Do storage and wine - make sense :unsure:
I seem to drink it as quickly as I get it :wub:
Ah Mos, well, After the first FV, you need to put it someware to start the second deeper process "matricll...." something. This takes the wine to the high levels that you expect. What you buy has been through that process. However I do find that cellar 7 can be drunk after about 20 days very easily. So you need to be 30 odd bottles ahead of yourself. :D
I tried my iBrew when I syphoned it off after day 5 and I have to say, even then it was as good as the £5 bottles I but from the supermarked (usually reduced from a tenner). I shall try to sit on my hands and leave it to do its thing but it could be a close call. ::) :lol:
I shall try to remember to put some in a milk carton (a la Growster) for you Mum. :)
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Do storage and wine - make sense :unsure:
I seem to drink it as quickly as I get it :wub:
Ah Mos, well, After the first FV, you need to put it someware to start the second deeper process "matricll...." something. This takes the wine to the high levels that you expect. What you buy has been through that process. However I do find that cellar 7 can be drunk after about 20 days very easily. So you need to be 30 odd bottles ahead of yourself. :D
I tried my iBrew when I syphoned it off after day 5 and I have to say, even then it was as good as the £5 bottles I but from the supermarked (usually reduced from a tenner). I shall try to sit on my hands and leave it to do its thing but it could be a close call. ::) :lol:
I shall try to remember to put some in a milk carton (a la Growster) for you Mum. :)
Auntie, start the next batch tomorrow. From this first batch deep archive 6 bottles, dated. Corks down. From every batch do that. Home made wine isnt worth keeping for more than a year, two at the most. Commercial wines are sterelised and so last longer. So you can start to raid your deep archive Autum 2014. By which time you will have a continuos streem of new wines arriving as the old ones are being used. (Hic!)
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Do storage and wine - make sense :unsure:
I seem to drink it as quickly as I get it :wub:
:lol: That's my problem...but if you don't put the odd bottle away your always after your own tail.
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Mmm....I do have another beer fermenter which is empty at the mo.... ::)
No, I must resist. I have the 15 bottle iBrew, 30 bottle Muntons and 50 pints of Mexican beer on the go already.
Just as well I usually look drunk anyway, nobody will be able to tell the difference! :lol:
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Mmm....I do have another beer fermenter which is empty at the mo.... ::)
No, I must resist. I have the 15 bottle iBrew, 30 bottle Muntons and 50 pints of Mexican beer on the go already.
Just as well I usually look drunk anyway, nobody will be able to tell the difference! :lol:
An empty fermenter is almost a sin. :ohmy:
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Well the sun is over the yardarm.... (Pulls a cork, pop!!. 8) )
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An empty fermenter is almost a sin. :ohmy:
Oh, the guilt! :ohmy:
You two are terrible, if only I wasn't so easily led! ::) :lol:
Unscrews bottle - cheers! :)
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An empty fermenter is almost a sin. :ohmy:
Oh, the guilt! :ohmy:
You two are terrible, if only I wasn't so easily led! ::) :lol:
Unscrews bottle - cheers! :)
Cheers Auntie, chink
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I can't have a sniffer right now, :( (tiss only 05.40) I have to drive later...but I'll catch you guys up around 15.00 :lol:
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i used to use something similiar.....wine used too be sold in a 20l collapsible plastic containe housed in a square cardboard box...i used these for wine and beer...the big bonus is you can exclude all air...less oxidization
i reckon the less the wine contacts air..the greater the wine quality..by a long way!!...same with beer
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i used to use something similiar.....wine used too be sold in a 20l collapsible plastic containe housed in a square cardboard box...i used these for wine and beer...the big bonus is you can exclude all air...less oxidization
i reckon the less the wine contacts air..the greater the wine quality..by a long way!!...same with beer
Those are the ones Paul. I went for the 5L & 10L as they'll (hopefully) be easier for me to move. :)
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...the best container i used for wine was my 200l blue drum of Damson wine...lol
re. post...."Roll out the barrel..."
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...the best container i used for wine was my 200l blue drum of Damson wine...lol
re. post...."Roll out the barrel..."
Ah yes, I have read it but felt too inadequate to leave a comment! :D Festival part at yours then! :lol:
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200 litres !! Jeez, :blink:
The sun is over the yardarm Auntie. ::)
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.....i did have another cavernous wine storer...my mother!!...lol
we worked biblical miracles together...i turned water into wine and she turned wine into water...lol
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:ohmy:
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200 litres !! Jeez, :blink:
The sun is over the yardarm Auntie. ::)
I'm on my 2nd glass.... :tongue2: :lol:
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200 litres !! Jeez, :blink:
The sun is over the yardarm Auntie. ::)
I'm on my 2nd glass.... :tongue2: :lol:
Ohh!!. Goes to deep archive, gets a 1 year old Cellar 7, Pulls cork, pop. Happy days. :D :D :D
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.....i did have another cavernous wine storer...my mother!!...lol
we worked biblical miracles together...i turned water into wine and she turned wine into water...lol
:lol:
Oh dear, another one to add to the 'band who brew'... ::) :D
200 litres !! Jeez, :blink:
The sun is over the yardarm Auntie. ::)
I'm on my 2nd glass.... :tongue2: :lol:
Ohh!!. Goes to deep archive, gets a 1 year old Cellar 7, Pulls cork, pop. Happy days. :D :D :D
Cheers guys! Looks like I'm going to have to keep up by 'testing' another glass! :tongue2: ;)
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O You....and it's a year old... :tongue2:
Hope it's a good one Bob...enjoy my friend. Where do you get your C7 from??
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Its a bit new Auntie, but interesting to see what you think of it. Look at it first, hold it to the light, describe it.
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From these, although there are many suppliers. I get four at a delivery.
I do modify it, at first fermentation it says "Top it up to 23L" I top up to 25L, This compensates for the looses during racking and testing and gives me 30 bottles easily. I also do the first fermentation for 10-12 days not 7, then I drop rack it into a plastic carbouy and leave it for another two weeks. Rack it again, then degass for two days. Then bottle it. 6 bottles into the archive, the rest on a shelf, on their sides for routine quaffing. I only ever drink one archive bottle at a time, any more I switch to the quaffing bottles as I think you loose your pallet after the first glass.
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/winekits/cellar-7.html
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Its a bit new Auntie, but interesting to see what you think of it. Look at it first, hold it to the light, describe it.
A bit new? :ohmy: I don't know what you mean Bob, 'tis a full (checks diary) 12 days old now! :lol:
Well, it does need clearing (although I'll admit, I'm really not fussy) and the colour is good. I'd say that in terms of viscosity and taste, it's the equivalent of a reasonable quality £5 (usually reduced from £10) red from the supermarket.
After half a glass.....yup, there's definitely alcohol in there.
This gives me high hopes for the 30 bottle Merlot, but I have to say that I'm not sure that this batch (15 bottles) will make it to the bottling stage (well, ok, maybe 10L (possibly 5L? :unsure:)). :D
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Auntie, lol, ::) but you dop need to get it out of the air. Can you put it into one of your bags? Any that doesnt fit into the bag, you can drink over the next 6 days. Just seal it after each sample. ::)
CaptZ what have you started?????
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A quick search and I found these... Here (http://www.creativewinemaking.co.uk/wine-kits/cellar-7-wine-kits/cat_195.html?added=1)
ps ...it wert me Bob...you said the sun was over the yardarm.... :lol: :lol:
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A quick search and I found these...[urlhttp://www.creativewinemaking.co.uk/wine-kits/cellar-7-wine-kits/cat_195.html?gclid=CNCAi5yS-7gCFVMPtAodoUcAlQ] HERE [/url]
ps ...it wert me Bob...you said the sun was over the yardarm.... :lol: :lol:
Or this? :) http://www.creativewinemaking.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=195&_a=viewCat&catId=195&gclid=CNCAi5yS-7gCFVMPtAodoUcAlQ (http://www.creativewinemaking.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=195&_a=viewCat&catId=195&gclid=CNCAi5yS-7gCFVMPtAodoUcAlQ)
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Cellar 7 is very common, but very good. Maybe that is why it is common!!. I can definately get 30 bottles our of a £30 kit and so I don't fight for the cheapest price, My supplier delivers on time and often throws in a free tub of sterelizer, so I stick with him. There are lots of others one I like are these guys.
http://www.thebrewshop.com/
They are very helpful.
Auntie, it looks like it was my fault, again. sorry ::) ::) ::)
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Auntie, are you still with us? ???
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Whah? :wacko:
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Whats wrong? ???
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Oops, sorry! :)
Yes, I think I'll give the Cellar 7 a go when the Muntons is gone (too good a bargain to miss). It's a bit of an investment, as postage is not cheap (due to the weight) so I would have to buy 2-3 kits, but in the long run, the prognosis is good. ::)
Auntie, lol, ::) but you dop need to get it out of the air. Can you put it into one of your bags? Any that doesnt fit into the bag, you can drink over the next 6 days. Just seal it after each sample. ::)
It'sin the ibrew thing with a tap and airlock atm. I was going to put the finings in today Bob but had to pick my car up from the garage and then I had a play with my new carpet cleaner... ::) :D
I shall stir them in tomorrow and leave it to settle for a week and bag it up. :)
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Ok. Hey most suppliers will do free delivery over a certain price.
Look http://www.creativewinemaking.co.uk/delivery/info_5.html (http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?action=seored;u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.creativewinemaking.co.uk%2Fdelivery%2Finfo_5.html)
FREE Delivery to the UK mainland on orders of £45 and over.
Thats only two kits £60
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That's very good Bob, some of them have a £65 free delivery order. :)
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Its the one CaptZ found.
Be worth buying two kits.
I'll try them as well.
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Its the one CaptZ found.
Be worth buying two kits.
I'll try them as well.
I'll get there eventually. May take me a while to work my way through 135 bottles though (even with testing and laying down).....
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Lay as many down as you can. The more that you can store the quicker you can build up a cellar. You don't want to be making wine in the winter really, its to hard to keep the FV warm at night. So brew up enough so you can stop in October planning to restart in April. Unless you can find a way to keep the FV at 20 deg C for 24 hours a day.
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I was really hoping it would keep me busy during the winter when I can't garden. :lol: I have a couple of terrarium heatpads, but after seeing how quickly my wine has been fermenting, I think I'll be contentedly snoozing in front of the fire. :)
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Well, to ferment it needs to be 20 deg C. Yeast doesn't like wild variations and below 18 it will stop, above 27 it will die. This temperature needs to be maintained 24 hours a day. The bottled wine is much more tolerant and just doesn't like to freeze.
Aim to be by the fire, glass in hand, contemplating your brewing and seed catalogues. Dream of the next spring. as the medication drifts you to a good nights sleep.
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Aim to be by the fire, glass in hand, contemplating your brewing and seed catalogues. Dream of the next spring. as the medication drifts you to a good nights sleep.
Heaven! :D
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As well as 20 glass dj I use "5ltr mineral water containers" these work very well in wine production and storage. Remember though all red wines should be stored in dark vessels otherwise they can turn brown .:)
Plastic corks or symphetic style both work fine .
In my brewhouse I've got at different stages these.
Blackberry,crab apple,dandelion,dandelion+ burdock,pineapple,gorse flower,prune+ strawberry,spruce,ginger,rhubarb and variants,Elderflower and variants. As well as alcoholic ginger beer. A part mash beer recipe which I've created .:)
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As well as 20 glass dj I use "5ltr mineral water containers" these work very well in wine production and storage.
A part mash beer recipe which I've created .:)
Ahh....do you brew beer as well..Newportalien??? you mentioned a brew house....and welcome to the forum. :D
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Sun is over the yardarm, pop!!!
Ive never tried my own mash, does it produce a beter brew than the kits?
Can we get a pic of the brewhouse. (envy)
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Our brewhouse is realy a converted coal bunker :) . Only doing part mash,until money falls into my pocket so I can buy more kit. Mostly used for long term maturing of beer and wine. I find brewhouse sounds better than coal bunker ha ha ha.;)
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Sun is over the yardarm, pop!!!
Ive never tried my own mash, does it produce a beter brew than the kits?
Can we get a pic of the brewhouse. (envy)
Sorry to take so long BobE, was in bed last night again early trying to sleep this bug off. I'm at work today but I'm taking tomorrow off, otherwise it could go on into next week....
I've got loads of photos of my builds....I say builds because like a lot of folks you try to do it on the cheap first time..(which ain't bad...I'm a Yorkshire man after all :tongue2:) and a load of guys still use plastic boilers and make very drinkable brews, sometimes better that you can find in some pubs.
This was my first one I made, I had this going for maybe 18 months or so.
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/Dieseljockey/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/pipework1.jpg) (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Dieseljockey/media/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/pipework1.jpg.html)
But like most folks you want bigger and better....so this one is my latest one.
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/Dieseljockey/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/IMAG0076.jpg) (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Dieseljockey/media/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/IMAG0076.jpg.html)
On the left is my mashtun...a 80 lts thermopot...on the right is my 100 lts boiler....all stainless steel.
This is my homemade double coil chiller..
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/Dieseljockey/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/12211007.jpg) (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Dieseljockey/media/Home%20Brew/Brewery%20build/12211007.jpg.html)
I've post the fermentation fridge I've made.....as I use Corny kegs I've made a Keggerater with holds 4 at a push..
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af94/Dieseljockey/Cornykegs/IMAG0100.jpg) (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Dieseljockey/media/Cornykegs/IMAG0100.jpg.html)
As for doing a mash take a look at a Brew in a bag.. makes some good beer...with your own mash you have more control over your brew. Right I'm tipped at Northampton...got to go to Stoke now....catch you guys & gals later.
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Looks good, excellent pics