[casper]

Moved into my house in January, it had a pond, was really excited about cleaning it out and sorting it all, water level was dropping but put it sown to lovely weather and i never topped water levels as I knew I would be emptying it, well totally gutted emptied it all day Sat and there was water under the liner suggesting i have a leak, i have all matured Hosta all around it, the thought of raising all the surrounding sandstones to replace the liner seems so much hard work, my hubby wanted me to getshut and now i think he may have won me over, unless i do a Charlie Dimmock and get stuck in, anyboy have ponds and are they worth the upkeep 

[BobE]

Could you overlay it with another liner?
Or remove the liner and fit a new one.
Liners only last 10 years or so because of the action of the sun on the edges.

[casper]

I can live with that 10 years is good, i enjoyed cleaning it out, just really devoed that the liner was bust 

[JayG]

Underwater leaks are quite unusual because as has been mentioned the liner has more UV protection than above the surface, although of course it is vulnerable to careless "maintenance" with sharp objects, or penetration from sharp stones from underneath if the preparation wasn't done carefully enough and/or no protective underlay was fitted.

If you can find the leak, repair kits are available for both PVC and butyl rubber liners, but I can't vouch for their effectiveness - re-lining has to be a better long-term option.

As for the exposed liner, I let marginal plants cover some of it, rockery plants like aubretia other parts of it, and the water lily leaves the rest of it (especially this year as it has clearly turned back into a monster again and the leaves are pushing up out of the water!  )

[casper]

Thank you, well the house was empty for a year, when i emptied it there was allsorts in there, including metal tent pegs, large beach shells that were really brittle and incredibly sharp, i am sure either of these could have caused the damage, i do think the effort is worth it, the thought of perfect rectangle lawn does not do it for me, my idea of beauty is a bit of nature in the garden 

[BobE]

Casper, so you could remove the whole deal, start with a hole and create a pond for yourself.  New liner, few plants plus the ones you save. Wonderful project.  Go for it.
Seed wildflowers around it, add some water plants. You will get wildlife you never belived.

[snowdrops]

I would say go for it, we have a pond with liner but we have fish so have to have a filter but not necessary in a wild life pond. Well worth the effort, my sister has a wonderful pond,& very little maintenance after the initial hardwork.

[JayG]

My common goldfish are perfectly happy without filtration, although you do need a depth of at least 2' to avoid freezing in winter, and good marginal and underwater planting. Wouldn't try to keep Koi without filtration though, not that my pond is anything like big enough for them.

Fish and pond wildlife are a bad combination, although since many of the marginal plants have escaped from their pots, and keeping on top of the hornwort is a full-time job in summer, I like to think the frog tadpoles at least have a better chance than they did when I first constructed the pond.

[casper]

Yes I love both ideas of wildlife or fish, my husband thought it ver amusing that I attempted to save every Frog and Tadpole. Now I have two huge buckets full of Tadpoles. You know the toy buckets ones you get with ropes each side. I keep topping up the water and checking on them so I can re-add them later. I adore Frogs. I do like the thought of a Frog Pond, i found all sorts of critters in there, can wait now, having a tree removed next week which is to the side of the pond, so when its gone i am going to get stuck in, debris will only make a mess if i do it before, thanks 

[BobE]

Casper, If you are starting over by removing the old pond and beginning at the hole stage, you might consider enlarging it a bit, especially where the tree has been removed.  Create a gradually shallowing side, frogs love the graduation whereas fish ponds tend to have steep sides.  A sloping side area with a few rocks is ideal for them.  Also you should go over the hole removing stones.  Before putting in the new liner put down a cloth base to protect it.
Put a seat nearby so hubby can sit with a beer and you can both enjoy watching.

Sorry if I seem a bit bossy 

[Elvira]

We inherited a pond when we bought the house. I think the owner had put the butyl rubber liner down on top of old carpet! I had thought that you usually use fine sand as a base to lay the liner on but the carpet seems to have worked as it is still going strong 20+ years on! If you aren't changing the size/shape of the pond I would be tempted to leave the old liner in place, put a layer of sand/carpet down  and lay the new one over it provided there is nothing there to damage the new one (saves you having to dispose of the old liner and also the more there is to protect the new liner from damage from below, the better!).

Also save a bit of the "sludge" from the bottom if you rebuild the pond as this will get the new one "started" - you don't want it absolutely clean (unless you are keeping Koys) if you want to attract wildlife. When you refill the pond, if you do this from the tap, let the water stand for 24 hours before putting anything back in (tadpoles etc) to let any chemicals disperse and any sediment from the sludge settle.

We have goldfish, frogs, toads and newts in our pond (no filter) - not supposed to be a good combination but they all seem quite happy!  Also it has steep sides which are not ideal but the lily pads, irises etc give the frogs a stepping stone to get out.

I am having to wait to clear out some of the weed etc until the tadpoles/froglets are big enough to escape but it is great to go out in the evening to play spot the froglet! 

[BobE]

That sounds brilliant Elvira.

[casper]

Thanks guys, I kept a bucket of sludge and a huge bucket with Tadpoles to recycle, lots of stones in my bucket for them to get out, yes my friend mentioned the carpet trick to me, i think I would keep the existing liner and place a new one over, the reason been that the pond never seemd to lose much water other than that you would expect to lose to evaporation. It was only when i reached the absolute bottom of emtying that it felt like a water bed under the liner, I could feel trapped water under it, i dont know where else it could have come from other than the liner, would hate to gamble and refill just to empty it again, i cant dedicate anymore space to the pond its huge already. Im my hubbys opinion it already takes too much, haha but I always get my way so you never know   

[JayG]

Unlikely as it may sound in your case given the recent dry weather I have read about cases where a high water table has pushed the liner upwards? (it creates so much pressure it can even lift a few feet of water above it.)

Given your doubts about how much water you actually lose and the cost and effort of replacing the liner it might be worth digging a hole near the pond to at least the depth of the pond to see if you get water collecting in there.

Probably not worth the trouble if you know you have deep and well-drained soil and subsoil though.

[BobE]

i cant dedicate anymore space to the pond its huge already. Im my hubbys opinion it already takes too much, haha but I always get my way so you never know   

I only meant that if the tree is coming out it might be possible to utilise its hole as part of the pond. (But without seeing it Im probable talking rubbish.