Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Growing => Grow Your Own => Potato & Tomato Popularity Polls => Topic started by: JayG on October 07, 2013, 11:04

Title: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: JayG on October 07, 2013, 11:04
In the hope that this year most people had much more success growing tomatoes than last year, I'm resurrecting the members' tomato popularity survey for 2013 as the previous two (in 2010 and 2011) appear to have been of interest to many forum members and users, and a potentially useful guide to different varieties to try in the future.

Include as many varieties as you like, but please remember we are trying to compare the yields and flavour of successful plants rather than, for instance, how quickly your entire crop was ruined by blight, as that is something that can unfortunately affect all varieties.

Against each choice, please give a rating out of 10 for yield and flavour so that they can be included in the final list.

Your entry should therefore look something like:

Red Firecracker; yield 8, flavour 10
Yellow fever; yield 10, flavour 7


I will collate the results into a table after a few weeks, and will again add information such as fruit size, colour, shape, and whether cordon or bush. Feel free to make any additional comments about them, but don't forget to include the above information.

Thanks in advance for your participation - needless to say the more people who make the effort the more meaningful the results will be!  :)

Jon (JayG)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: JayG on October 07, 2013, 11:06
Inca F1: Yield 9, Flavour 7
Sweet Million F1: Yield 10, Flavour 8
Sungold F1: Yield 6, Flavour 9
Red Alert: Yield 10, Flavour 7

Possibly a bit unfair to mark Inca down for flavour because they are a cooking plum tomato, and a good, fleshy one at that.

Second time around for me with Sungold (a very popular variety in previous surveys) but my 3 plants only produced half the crop of 2 Sweet Million plants, and I was unable to prevent the majority of them splitting, although I really do like the flavour of them.

Red Alert did what they have always done produced pounds and pounds of quite decent tasting tomatoes from just two plants.  :)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: mumofstig on October 07, 2013, 11:23
Rio Grande - yield 9, flavour (cooked) 8 - cordon plum, always on my planting list

Black Sea Man - yield 8, flavour 9 - bush beefsteak-size early, smaller later in the season new to me this year but will add it to the regular list.

Black Cherry yield 10 (still cropping!) flavour 9 - tall cordon another regular.

Kibitz - yield 10, flavour 7 (better cooked) - early small bush plum, I'd say it has some blight resistance as it carried on longer than most outside, I will grow it again to make sure.

Carlton - yield 8, flavour 6 - tall beefsteak tom. Fruits were huge but taste not as good this year  :(





Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: surbie100 on October 07, 2013, 11:34
Black Russian - Yield 7 Flavour 10

Tigerella - Yield 6 Flavour 6

Green Zebra - Yield 7 Flavour 9

Garden Pearl - Yield 9 Flavour 5 (better cooked)

100s&1000s - Yield 10 Flavour 10

First time successfully growing tomatoes. Both Garden Pearl and 100s&1000s are still cropping well, though the 100s&1000s are now splitting a little.

I just don't like Garden Pearl uncooked - mine were mushy to eat fresh, though good to cook with. Tigerella were a bit bland, but the Black Russians & Green Zebra were beautiful.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Annen on October 07, 2013, 12:00
Bambino - yield 4, flavour 9 (very leggy plant)
Black Cherry  -  yield 9, flavour 9
Black Russian - yield 1, flavour 7 (lots of flowers didn't pollinate)
Gardeners delight - yield 8, flavour 8
Sweet Million - yield 7, flavour 9 (too sprawly)
Sungold - yield 8, flavour 10
Marmande - yield 8, flavour 8 cooked
100&1000s - yield 9, flavour 7 (too sprawly)


My choices for next year will be Sungold, Black Cherry, Marmande, and perhaps Gardeners Delight and/or Garden Pearl if I've got room...and maybe Red Alert  ::)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: devonbarmygardener on October 07, 2013, 17:03
Gartenperle (bush) - yield 10; flavour 8 

My cordon toms:

Roma VF  - yield 8; flavour 6
Sweet Million - yield 10; flavour 10
Shirley  - yield 3; flavour 7
San Marzano  - yield 2; flavour 4 

Gartenperle were prolific and very long cropping in hanging baskets.
Roma VF didn't taste great - then told they were a cooking tom!  ::) - not bad amount of fruits but succumbed to something mildewy I think!

Sweet Million, Shirley and San Marzano were a grafted collection - 1 plant of each - Sweet Million lived up to their name - delicious and prolific - would probably do as well from seed.
Shirley and San Marzano were poor considering they were supposed to be more vigorous and prolific (being grafted - not many fruit on either plant!

Would not waste money on grafted toms next year but grafted aubs and cukes - oh yes!!!

Oh and all the above were cold greenhouse grown ;)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: sunshineband on October 07, 2013, 19:17
Gardener's Delight - yield 9  flavour 8
Golden Sunrise - yield 6 flavour 3
Sungella - yield 10 (still going)  flavour 10 (These are developed from Sungold)
Polish Paste - yield 4  flavour 4 (cooking tomato really though)
Moneymaker - yield 7 flavour 7
Yellow Pear - yield 6 flavour 4
Tumbler - yield 9  flavour 8
100s & 1000s - yield 8 flavour 10
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: VegGirl7 on October 07, 2013, 21:59
wish I could comment on more (have grown 12 varieties this year) but I don't want to sway the results because the yield score would be very low  :(  - think I have to accept my greenhouse is in the wrong spot (not enough light!).  The one I can comment on though is

Currant Sweet Pea - yield 9  flavour 9 (bush) has done really well, even without a great deal of light
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: cadalot on October 08, 2013, 06:34
Gardener's Delight - yield 7  flavour 8
Moneymaker - yield 7 flavour 7
Plum - yield 5 flavour 9
100s & 1000s - yield 10 flavour 10

I found that one get only 8 seeds in a pack of the 100s and 1000s - my daughters love these the best and Emma has requested more of them next year wanting to take a plant into the Children's Nursery where she works so I've collected seeds.

Interesting to see this result here as I already have seed from the Garden Centre 50p sale

F1 Sweet Million - 20 seeds
Sweetboy -20 seeds
F1 Lizzano - 7 seeds
Gardeners Delight - not stated
Harbinger - 30 seeds
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Growster... on October 08, 2013, 07:01
Sungold - yield 10, flavour 10.
Gardener's delight - yield 8, flavour 9.
Black Krim - yield 5, flavour 8.

Note - Most of Sungold were in the greenhouse, as was one each of the others. The greenhouse plants reached seven trusses in some pots.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: gypsy on October 08, 2013, 10:14
Red pear - yield 9  flavour  8.  amazing texture with silky smooth skin
Gardeners delight - yield 7 flavour 8
Money maker - yield 7 flavour 5
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: TheWhiteRabbit on October 08, 2013, 18:55
Gardener's Delight:  yield 8 flavour 8
Latah: yield 8 flavour 9
Amish Paste: yield 5 flavour 6

Note - Amish Paste is a plum tomato so not as tasty raw as the others but does make a very nice sauce. Very large tomatoes but not many on a vine.

Very impressed with Latah - nice sized toms with very good flavour. Grows happily outdoors but is incredibly messy and sprawling.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: polly nator on October 09, 2013, 09:02
Maskotka  Yield 10  Flavour 8
Befsteak    Yield 8   Flavour 5
1. Sweet Million   Yield 7   Flavour 9   - not sure why but yield was much lower than in previous years in my garden
2. Sweet Milion    Yield 10  Flavour 9   - grown in daughters garden
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Ashurstman on October 09, 2013, 12:05
Sungold - Yield 8 Flavour 10
Roma - Yield 8 Flavour  8

The Roma were superb for cooking and turning into tomato sauce for storage.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Headgardener22 on October 11, 2013, 16:24
A sample of the plants I grew this year:

Sunset's Red Horizon:Yield 9: Taste 7
Tamina: Yield 8: Taste 7
Cherokee Purple: Yield 8: Taste 9
Limmony: Yield 7: Taste 8
Pink Brandywine: Yield 7: taste 9
Marvel Striped: Yield 7: Taste 8
Green Grapes: Yield 8: taste 9
Japanese Black Trifele: Yield 7: taste 8
Jubilee: Yield 7: taste 7
German Gold: Yield 6: Taste 8
Aunt Ruby's German Green Cherry: Yield 6: Taste 8
Rambling Gold Stripe: Yield 7: Taste 3
Nikolayev Yellow Cherry: Yield 6: Taste 7
Rio Grande: Yield 0: Taste 2
Roma: Yield 2: Taste 3
White Currant: Yield 4: Taste 5


I'm interested in what people consider to be a "good yield". My plants are grown in a polytunnel but its in partial shade so I don't think I get as good yield as I could. My best yield this year was Sunset's Red, 3kg from a single plant but then the Rio Grande only got 3 tomatoes (all the rest had Blossom End Rot).
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: coop-de-tat on October 11, 2013, 17:29
Gardeners Delight: Yield 9 - Taste 7

Late starter with these, started them off outside then moved into the GH. Very impressed with the yield but not so much with the taste, they are not as sweet as I like, very tangy. But great for frying up or on a cheese and potato pie etc.

CdT
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: MrsPea on October 11, 2013, 18:43
I grew a new one this year Sparta F1also Shirley which is very much the same both good doers in the green house and for tumblers I grew Garden Pearl a freebie from one of the mags, lovely flavour and very prolific. Next year I'm going to try a beefeater I make a lot of home made soup I was thinking these may be better for it ???
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Mr Dog on October 13, 2013, 16:40
Yellow Pear: Yield 10 (can't believe how many toms came off 3 plants), Taste 6 (although when made into soup I'd give them an 8)
Black Krim: Yield 6, Taste 9
Harbinger: Yield 8 Taste 7
Garden Perle: Yield 8, Taste 9
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Totty on October 19, 2013, 13:01
Beefsteak-
Black Prince- Yeild-5  Taste-8 (strong plants, a little untidy in habit, some very large)
Mortgage Lifter- Yeild-4 Taste-8 (late to ripen, excellent flavour)
Purple Beefsteak- Yeild-5 Taste-8 (almost identical to Black Prince in habit and flavour)
Pink Brandywine- Yeild-6 Taste-9 (best of the beefsteaks by far. Amazing flavour this year)
Mediums-
Cedrico- Yeild-6 Flavour-4 (perfect quality for showbench early on. Poor flavour and desiese resistance. Dropped for next year)
Shirley- Yeild-8 Flavour-7 (strong growth, good yields and flavour, dependable year on year)
Goldstar- Yeild-7 Flavour-9 (perfect showbench quality, tidy plants, thin skinned with very good flavour)
Dometica- Yeild-8 Flavour-9 (best medium this year, very upright tidy plants, perfect quality, excellent flavour)

Plum
Shirley's crystal plumb- Yeild-5 Flavour-7 (decent plumb with tidy growth, late to ripen, large fruit)
Roma- Yeild-7 Flavour-7 (perfect for sauces, but very untidy plants, too time consuming, dropped for next year)

Small/cherry
Sungold- Yeild-8 Flavour 7 (was first to crop, too keen to split skins, too many tiny fruits, dropped for next year)
Sakura- Yeild-9 Flavour 10 (best overall for me this year. Amazing flavour, growth habit and Yeild. Recommended)
Flamingo- Yeild-6 Flavour 8 (unusual pink fruit, untidy for a cordon, decent flavour
Derby Striped- Yeild-8 Flavour-6 (unusual striped fruit, better than tigrella)
Tomatoberry Grande- Yeild-9 Flavour-9 (lovely flavour, tidy plants,very attractive fruits in abundance.Recommended)

These were all grown in a greenhouse, between 5 and 8 of each plant. In well enriched borders. Upto 9 trusses when they were stopped. Best tomato year ever this year.

Totty
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: mclare on October 20, 2013, 16:23
Sweet million        9 out of 10
Black Russian        4 out of 10
Trigrella                 7 out of 10
Purple Cherokee 11 out of 10  never grown these before but for a beef steak it is large and flavoursome even when green and fried (some were heavy and fell off in the wind so,  waste not etc  YUM great for a brunch with bacon and eggs
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: JayG on October 20, 2013, 16:56
Hi Mclare - welcome to the forums and thanks for your contribution, although I can't use it as it is to put together the results as I need 2 "scores" - one for yield and another for taste - I think you've just given an overall rating.

If you click on "modify" you will be able to update your post (and I will then delete this one!)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Ema on October 20, 2013, 20:47
garden pearl - yield 9 - flavour 0 (was very disappointed in these) grown on allotment with halos

I grew 9 different types of tomatoes in pots at home but some how I mixed all the labels up! the beef stake types were lovely but I got very few ripe ones.

German orange strawberry - yield 3 - flavour 7
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: red tomato on October 21, 2013, 19:29
I tried "G12 F1" from Johnsons, they were superb. yield, 10, taste 9.Will be planting some more next year.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: NickoV on October 25, 2013, 12:02
Alicante yield 9 taste 7
Ailsa Craig yield 7 tatse 8
Black Cherry yield 10 taste 9
Galina yield 7 taste 7
Peace vine yield 6 taste 8
Pink Brandywine yield 8 taste 10
Chrystal plum yeild 9 taste 7
Brandy sweet plum yield 7 taste 9

All grown in an unheated tunnel in clay soil with comfrey mulch.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: AnneB on October 25, 2013, 17:05
Aranyalma.     Yield 5.  Taste 9.  Yield may have more to do with Verve growbag i put them in than variety.
                      Small thin skinned yellow variety from Heritage Seed Library.
Golden Grape.  Yield 7. Taste 8.  A very small yellow type from HSL.
Essex Wonder.   Yield 9.  Taste 6 fresh and 9 cooked.
Cuban Flower.   Yield 8.  Taste 6.   Huge beefsteak.   Not many tomatoes but they weighed a lot.
Lima Korai.       Yield 9.  Taste 7.
Principe Borghese.   Yield 4.  Taste 8 (cooked).
Candlelight.       Yield 8.  Taste 8.   F1 hybrid i bought in Japan.

All grow outside in large pots apart from Aranyalma and one of the 2 Principe Borgheses.   Those in the growbags did less well in terms of yield.

Oh and I forgot Sungold, which i grew at my parents in Levington's growbags there.

Sungold.   Yield 9.   Taste 9.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Auntiemogs on October 25, 2013, 17:48
Orange Paruche  Yield 7 (not a great year for me)  Taste 10 larger version of Sungold, will be growing again  :tongue2:
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: A Reyt Tayty on October 25, 2013, 18:41
Gardeners delight: yield 7, flavour 7
Moneymaker: yield 8, flavour 7
Tigrella: yield 10, flavour 9
San Marzano: yield 8, flavour 7.

I may seem to have rated Moneymaker high for taste, but bear in mind, I save my own seed from the very best fruits each year in order to try to keep a higher standard than taking pot luck with bought seed. This may be a factor.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: madcat on October 26, 2013, 13:02
Idli: Yield 9, Flavour 10  All round everybody's favourite, eaten like sweets
gardeners delight: Yield 9, Flavour 8  Reliable as always
tigerella: Yield 7, Flavour 8  Good for sandwiches but inclined to rot on the vine
Roma: Yield 7, Flavour 8  Good cooker, but suffered most from pests and blossom end rot
Red Alert: Yield 10, Flavour 7 Early, reliable but not a stunning flavour

Can you split by growing types?  I'm looking for a good one for hanging baskets next year  ::)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: ferret1988 on October 26, 2013, 20:03
 can we please have a potato survey again?

sungold f1 yield 8 flavour 9
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: mumofstig on October 26, 2013, 20:50
new potato one here  ;)
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=107102.msg1202342#msg1202342
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Mother-Hen on October 26, 2013, 21:05
Best year so far.....


Money maker   Flavour 8 Yield 9

Gardeners Delight Flavour 8 Yield 9
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: Mikey on November 04, 2013, 21:07
Can you add date of first ripe tomato.

Strilo       yield  7       flavour   8    first ripe 3 Aug
Alicante   yield 7        flavour  9     first ripe 8 Aug
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: LilacSandy on November 06, 2013, 18:18
Yellow Stuffer Yield 9 Flavour 5 - undercover
Money maker Yield 8 Flavour 7 - undercover
Gardeners Delight  Yield 5 Flavour 8 - undercover
Gardeners Delight  Yield 7 Flavour 8 - outside
Pomodoro Ciliegia  Yield 6 Flavour 7 - undercover
Pomodoro Ciliegia  Yield 9 Flavour 9 - Outside
Roma  Yield 9  Flavour 8 - outside
Tigerella Yield 6 Flavour 8 - undercover
Tigerella Yield 8 Flavour 8 - Outside
Sweet Baby Yield 9 Flavour 8 - undercover
Golden Sunrise Yield 7 Flavour 8 - outside

All my outside plants outperformed the plants undercover.  Plum tomatoes seemed to double in yield outside for me.


Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: bravemurphy on November 06, 2013, 21:39
I had Tigerella in the greenhouse and the were great, big and tasty.

Outside in pots after such a good year last year ( even though they got blighted) was Masakotta and fair play they just kept coming nice size cherry tom with a lovely taste.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: New shoot on November 07, 2013, 07:33
Some of these are old varieties that are a little obscure, but reporting anyway as some are well worth searching out  :)

In the greenhouse

Chocolate Cherokee - beefsteak - Yield 8 Flavour 10.  You don't get masses of fruit, but they are huge.  New to me and instantly became a favourite that will get grown again next year

German Orange Strawberry - beefsteak - Yield 5 Flavour 8.  2nd year of trying and low yields again  :(

Wladecks - beefsteak - Yield 7 Flavour 7 - OK, but got better varieties

Outside

Black Sea Man - bush beefsteak - Yield 9 Flavour 10 - was my favourite last year and same again this year.  This grows huge and needs some cane supports, but early maturing, you get loads off a single plant and they taste out of  this world  :D

Brook's Special - cordon, large fruits - Yield 8 Flavour 8 - new to me and another good 'un

Latah - bush cherry tom - Yield 10 Flavour 9 - can't beat Latah for early crops and lots of it, but they are sprawling plants that need room

Maskotka - trailing cherry tom - Yield 10 Flavour 8 - did this in a tall container rather than hanging baskest so they could have more soil and they loved it.  Loads of fruit and slightly larger and later than Latah  :)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013 - (needs YOU!)
Post by: JayG on November 17, 2013, 14:42
No additional posts for 10 days now - I'll "unsticky" the thread and let it sink gracefully down the page, and when it gets demoted to page 2 I'll move it to join the previous surveys in the "Potato and Tomato popularity polls" (a "child" board of GYO.)

Unless there is a sudden rush of usable posts I shall just move it "as is" - there just aren't enough results posted to make it worthwhile collating them into a table.

Thanks to all who have contributed this year.  :)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: JayG on November 20, 2013, 19:35
Because there weren't enough results posted to produce a meaningful table this year I'll leave it unlocked for the time being in case anyone else wants to add their comments about their 2013 tomato-growing year.
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: devonbarmygardener on November 20, 2013, 20:21
It's a shame that there is no more data, but I've found what's here really useful for picking the toms I want to grow next year as I'm after taste and flavour.
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: LilacSandy on November 21, 2013, 12:00
Just did a quick flick over the last 3 poles, only included those with at least 4 votes
                                                       3 years         
                                     Votes   Yield       Taste   overall
Sungold                              26             8.6       9.5   9.05
Sweet Milion                      16             8.9       8.9   8.9
Gardeners delight              30             7.7       8           7.85
Money maker                      17             8.5       7.1   7.8
Black Cherry                      9             6.9       8.4   7.65
Tigerella                             11             7       8.1   7.55
Golden Sunrise               9             7.8       7.1   7.45
Shirley                              9             7.1       7.3   7.2
Roma                              15             4.9       6.5   5.7

                                       Toms with 8 posts and under

100&1000s                       8             9.6       9.1   9.35
Pink Brandywine              4             8.5       9.1   8.8
Idli: Yield                               4             8.3       8           8.15
Alicante                               8             8.2       7.8   8
Red Alert                              8             8.5       7.4   7.95
Red Cherry                      4             7.3       8.5   7.9
Tumbling Tom                       7             8       7.6   7.8
Marmande                      7            7.8       7.5   7.65
Rio Grande                       5            7.3       7.8   7.55
Ailsa Craig                      4            7.3       7.8   7.55
Black Russian                       5            5.3       8.2   6.75
Brandywine                      4            5.3       7.6   6.45
San Marzano                        6            4.9       6.4   5.65
Super Marmande              4            4.3       7           5.65
garden pearl                      7            5.8       4.3   5.05
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: jezza on November 22, 2013, 00:11
shirley yield 5 flavour 4 bad ripening green underskin          blackcherry yield 9 flavour 9  legend yield8    flavour 9 most fruit 8oz   ferline yield 7 flavour  8 most fruit 1lb     jezza                 
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: JayG on November 22, 2013, 09:40
Just did a quick flick over the last 3 poles, only included those with at least 4 votes

Quick flick over? ::) It took me hours to collate just one year's results!  :ohmy: :lol:

Thanks for taking the trouble LS.  :)
Title: Re: Home Grown Tomato survey 2013
Post by: lazza on July 04, 2014, 15:13
haha! I realise I'm very late to the party, but for what it's worth (to future readers), my 2013 results were:

So, as for the experiment with 5 new varieties, I think I've had mixed results:

Brown Berry (1 plant): yield - 7, taste - 6
Lemon Plum (2 plants): yield - 8, taste - 8
Tiny Tim (1 plant, bush variety): yield - 4, taste - 4
Garden Peach (2 plants): yield - 6, taste - 9 (and the nicest looking tomato I have grown!)
Currant Sweet Pea (4 plants): yield - 7, taste - 8 (but enormous plants)

This year, I have planted Garden Peach and Lemon Plum again, and added Vilma as my bush variety.