[mebanana]

I would like to create a pretty boundary between my new garden and the neighbour's, so we have some privacy.  Rather than a solid fence, I really like the idea of creating the "belgian fence" style of espalier fruit trees.

We're in Edinburgh, the garden is quite sheltered and unfortunately faces NEE.

I was thinking to basically follow these instructions: http://gardenclub.homedepot.com/how-to-train-an-espalier-fence/

The fence would be about 20ft long, so I think I'd need about 8 or 9 trees.  I'd want to restrict the height to 5-6ft.  This would obviously be for just one side of the garden (I'm thinking maybe currants/gooseberries/elder and others for the other side, but that's for another day's thinking! )

Possibilities for varieties (I'd have to narrow it down) would be:

Apple "blooming ploughman", M26 rootstock - flowering group 4
Apple "Chivers Delight" - group 4
Apple "Egremont Russet" - group 2
Apple "Ashmead's Kernel" - group 4
Apple "Yellow Ingestrie"  - group 3
Apple "Kidd's Orange Red" M26 rootstock - group 3
Apple "McIntosh Red" M26 rootstock - group 2
Apple "Devonshire Quarrenden" M26 rootstock - group 2
Apple "Rosette" M26 rootstock - group 2
Apple "Pitmason Pine Apple" - group 4
Apple "Tickled Pink" - group 4
Apple "Rubinette" - group 3
Apple "Kidds Orange Red" - group 3
Plum "Mirabelle de Nancy" VVA-1 Rootstock - self-fertile
Cherry "Sweetheart" Gisela 5 rootstock
Pear "Red Williams" - Quince A rootstock - group 3
Pear "Moonglow" - Quince A rootstock - group 3
Quince "Leskovac" Quince A rootstock, self-fertile

I'm not interested in cooking apples as parents and in-laws both have trees that they give me lots of produce from I do want to try and grow something a bit unusual that will look and taste good, though!  So any suggestions would be great.

I have a few questions:

1) Is this far too ambitious for a novice pruner?
2) Has anyone else done this?
3) I think I'm right in thinking that because of the shape of a "Belgian fence" you can train trees that prefer fan-training to espalier?
4) Does anyone have any comments on the varieties/rootstocks I've mentioned?

All thoughts/advice gratefully received!!

Thanks.

[mebanana]

Ha! The first variety isn't "blooming"!  I was confused for a while then realised I'd been censored

[sunshineband]

That does sound very ambitious but achievable with careful pruning, and it would look amazing too. Nice to se e a quince on your list -- well worth the space and the Mirabelle plum should give you a good crop. I love these! Gypsy is a bright red early variety if you fancied another one, and very sweet?

How far apart are you planning to plant -- around six feet?

[mebanana]

Thanks for replying sunshineband The gypsy plums look lovely!

From what I've been reading, you plant things much closer for a Belgian fence - about 2' - but this does seem awfully close to me.  Maybe because they're so restrictively pruned?

[Trikidiki]

I am planning a Belgian Fence at home for the divide between the lawn and my old veg beds, which will now be a mini orchard with the chooks scratching underneath. I don't think it is too daunting a task for a beginner as each tree is only a double cordon apart from the end trees  which will be like half an espalier.

Mine will be about 24ft long with a gate in the centre, just to make life difficult I might arch the two end trees by the gate over the top.  They will all be apples. I have grafted all the trees I need, as long as no more die. If needs be I can fill the gaps next year. I have 'That Darn Ploughman'  and 'Devonshire Quarrendon' among mine. I am aiming for 6-8 ft high fence and 18" planting distance. I grafted scions with 3 or 4 buds on and most have given at least two shoots so I just need to nip out the extras and they're already on their way. Are you going to graft your own or buy maidens?

I have chosen MM106 rootstock (as it doesn't need staking) for the four ends with the following varieties:

Worcester Permain
Hertfordshire Russet
Scrumptious
Lucombes Pine


And have chosen P16 rootstock for the intermediate trees with the following varieties.

Claygate Permain
Devonshire Quarrendon
May Queen
Court Pendu Plat
Peasgood's Nonsuch
Blooody Ploughman
Spartan
Lord Lambourne
Red Falstaff
Saturn

I would be worried that your cherry and plum may be a little to vigorous for this sort of pruning, although the rootstocks you have chosen are listed as dwarf they still produce a sizeable tree. If the plum is pruned too vigorously it may start to sucker badly. I grafted onto some 'Gisella 5' this year and they seem to throw up loads of suckers too (which I am harvesting for rootstocks for next year). M26 needs to be staked permanently, may be more important for this sort of project as the fence will offer a lot of windage.

West Dean Gardens has some espalier gooseberries, they are actually Ribes speciosum, the fuschia flowered gooseberry. I've always fancied trying that as they look tremendous. https://duverdiary.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/img_1948.jpg

Keep us posted as to how you get on.

[sunshineband]

Thanks for replying sunshineband The gypsy plums look lovely!

From what I've been reading, you plant things much closer for a Belgian fence - about 2' - but this does seem awfully close to me.  Maybe because they're so restrictively pruned?

I was only going on one I had seen, so looked this up, and here is what I found. 18ins does seem to be OK!

http://growables.org/information/espalierbelgianfence.htm

[mebanana]

Trikidiki - thanks for your really full response!  I am a bit of a novice, I haven't grafted anything before for example, so was thinking of buying maiden trees.

I also don't know a huge amount about rootstocks - can I ask why you chose P16 for your intermediate trees?  I can see it makes a lot of sense to use MM106 for the supportive ones at the ends.

Shame re the plum/cherry, but better to know this now rather than make a mistake later on.  I might be able to squeeze one of them in elsewhere.

Sunshineband - thanks for the useful link! 

[Trikidiki]

..... - can I ask why you chose P16 for your intermediate trees?  I can see it makes a lot of sense to use MM106 for the supportive ones at the ends.

They were cheap!

I didn't want anything too dwarfing and was going to use all MM106 but when I went to buy them I found the P16 which from what I can establish are similar in size and were considerably cheaper. As I am only experimenting I thought I would give them a go. The grafts seem to have done well so fingers crossed they continue to perform.

Don't exclude the cherries or plums on my say-so. It was just my thoughts and experience with a 'dwarf' plum tree that I tried to espalier once.

I have espalier and fan gooseberries trained on wires. It keeps them open to the air so should reduce the chance of mildew. Best of all it makes them easy to pick without scratching your knuckles to shreds as the fruit hangs in the space below the branches. They're supposed to prefer to be grown as fans but the espaliers produce just fine.

[mebanana]

I didn't want anything too dwarfing

I don't want my trees to get tooo tall (worried about shading the neighbours too much), so would want to restrict the height to 5-6 feet.  Do you think I should use a more dwarfing rootstock than MM106 or will they take the pruning ok?

[New shoot]

If you are going to keep these trees trained and pruned, so controlling their height yourself, you would be better with the more vigorous root stock.

The very dwarfing ones can be slow to grow and you want plenty of material to go at to form the fence and then produce lots of growth to prune to form fruiting spurs 

[mebanana]

If you are going to keep these trees trained and pruned, so controlling their height yourself, you would be better with the more vigorous root stock.

The very dwarfing ones can be slow to grow and you want plenty of material to go at to form the fence and then produce lots of growth to prune to form fruiting spurs 

Excellent, thank you

[Trikidiki]

My only worry with anything more dwarfing than MM106 would be the lack of anchorage unless you plan to permanently have it on wires, but that would detract from the overall effect I feel.

Of the Malling rootstocks M26 is the smallest recommended for espaliers but is recommended to be permanently staked. MM106 is the next (readily available) size up and doesn't need staking, it is also available with a large selection of varieties if you are buying maidens.

[mebanana]

My only worry with anything more dwarfing than MM106 would be the lack of anchorage unless you plan to permanently have it on wires, but that would detract from the overall effect I feel.

Of the Malling rootstocks M26 is the smallest recommended for espaliers but is recommended to be permanently staked. MM106 is the next (readily available) size up and doesn't need staking, it is also available with a large selection of varieties if you are buying maidens.

Brilliant, thanks.  Do you have any similar recommendations for pears?

[Trikidiki]

Quince 'C' is the smallest readily available rootstock for pears about the same size as M26. There is a French one called Brossier that is smaller but I've not seen it for sale in the UK. Don't be fooled by the pear rootstock called 'Pyrodwarf' as it isn't dwarf, 5m plus.

Another problem is that not all varieties of pear can be grafted on to Quince rootstocks, if you were thinking of grafting them yourself.

[mebanana]

Thanks, once again!  Looking forward to getting started now