[neil1967]

Chose an area that i thought would be suitable for soft fruit bushes that i brought - Gooseberry, Raspberry, Tayberry and black currant. Area seems to be in full sun throughout the day. removed the wood chippings and black plastic from the area and dug a 10ft trench (length ways down the lottie) ready to dig over the plot but at the top end of the trench the top soil is about 5" deep deepening to about 9" at the other. Under this topsoil is fairly compacted sand.

Question is if i fork over the sand at the bottom will 5" be enough topsoil to plant the fruit in? or will i need to do more?

Neil

[Trillium]

The rest of the gang seem pretty silent on this one, so here goes. I think the plants would soon run into trouble with only 5" of 'good stuff'. Personally, I'd go the distance and really loosen up the compacted stuff, add as much compost, aged manure and peat as possible. Throw in some bonemeal as well. Work it all in as deep as you can, perhaps to 18" (45cm). The plants will really benefit and last you many years with big crops. After all, these are longterm fruits so you might as well do it right now rather than replace every few years. People think that raspberries are strictly shallow rooted runners - just try telling that to my bunch heading for China.  The deeper these plants can root, the less stressed they are should drought happen this summer.  

[neil1967]

Thanks Trillium,

Looks like i won't be planting out tomorrow as planned

Neil

[Trillium]

Sorry it's not what you probably hoped to hear, Neil, but it really is the only and proper way if you expect crops. I had a similar situation and put off planting until I sorted it. Now I'm not disappointed.

[neil1967]

Well a very productive day on the plot.

Spent most of last night thinking what to do. Answer = move the bed a couple of foot down the plot and raise it, so this morning made a 3mtx3mt x1ft raised bed. Placed this so that the 1ft rise starts at the sand layer meaning i would only have to dig 6" or so of the sand.
Completely removed 1/4 section of the topsoil to reveal the sand and forked this over to a depth of approx 9" a trip to the stables came back with 8 bags of well rotted manure put 6 on top of the 1/4 section approx 8" deep. now all thats left is to dig the next 1/4 but put the topsoil onto the 1st 1/4 dug (with more trips to the stables) this should the give me approx 20" of good stuff.
If it needs topping up = realised last night all the paths on the lottie have a descent layer of good topsoil going to waste so i'll just lower the paths and put the soil to good use.

Would it still be benificial to put a mulch layer of manure on top once fruit is planted?

Thanks again Trillium although it wasn't what i had wanted to hear i've thouroughly enjoyed today knowing that my fruit will have a good start.

Neil

[Trillium]

A manure mulch certainly wouldn't hurt. Raspberries are very hungry feeders, and will reward with heavy crops. I manure mulch mine every spring. I get good crops and few pests (which prefer sickly plants).

Glad you went the distance. It's extra work you won't have to do in the future when things get more hectic.  

[Tinbasher]

Well a very productive day on the plot.

Spent most of last night thinking what to do. Answer = move the bed a couple of foot down the plot and raise it, so this morning made a 3mtx3mt x1ft raised bed. Placed this so that the 1ft rise starts at the sand layer meaning i would only have to dig 6" or so of the sand.
Completely removed 1/4 section of the topsoil to reveal the sand and forked this over to a depth of approx 9" a trip to the stables came back with 8 bags of well rotted manure put 6 on top of the 1/4 section approx 8" deep. now all thats left is to dig the next 1/4 but put the topsoil onto the 1st 1/4 dug (with more trips to the stables) this should the give me approx 20" of good stuff.

Neil

Wow I feel foolish now.  I've recently gone 30 inches deep and still have 18 long  x 2 feet wide to do.  Its the border fence area in the garden tween me and the old lady next door, who is also a gardener.  It is though absolutely solid, pure, compacted clay apart from about a spade's depth of gritty and littered topsoil.  I've done 18 foot x 2 foot (the distance between our 2 respective paths) x 30 inches so far and put in 2 steel posts, 9 foot apart and the rails and palings for the infill. I'm halfway there now on a 36 foot run.  It's hectic and back-breaking, and the problem is also getting rid of it.  It all has to be run to the tip in bags (permit achieved first) and lifted all over again into a skip.  Pure tonnage.

I smashed loads of old bricks up with an 8lb sledgehammer and laid them on the bottom first, 3 or 4 inches deep, then levelled it off with several bags of loose stone, leaving me then about 24 inches to infill.  It took about 3 tons of quality top-soil, plus a good raft of manure to fill up to the brim.  In the first 9 foot run, I put 6 raspberry canes in, and in the 2nd 9 foot a blackberry bush.  Plan is to put another blackberry in the next 9 foot and 6 more raspberries in the remainder.

The old lady offered me 100 quid towards the cost last autumn when I first mentioned it, but I resloutely refused on the basis that I could get on with it piecemeal, and there may be periods when there was no fence between us - like now, and since Christmas.   Ok she said  - and then knocked on the door mid-december with loads of fruit canes and stuff she had ordered from J Parkers nurseries.  25 raspberries, 3 blackberries, 3 gooseberries, 5 blackcurrants, 25 trailing strawberries and 3 rhubarb.  "Here's some fruit for the fence" she said, "you've paid for all the materials and are doing the work so it's only fair.  Can you just put any surplus and the bush fruits up on the allotment and the rhubarb in my garden?"  "Erm, yes.....!"  I've got the bushes in the ground and all the strawberries in pots.  19 raspberries, 2 blackberries and 3 rhubarbs are left.

Now the pressure is on to get everything dug out and improved before the dormant condition ends.  It's killing me.

[paintedlady]

Now the pressure is on to get everything dug out and improved before the dormant condition ends.  It's killing me.

... if the fruit bushes or canes are in pots, they can be planted out any time, even in the middle of summer, so long as you don't disturb the roots!  Then the pressure is off if you don't quite make it before spring arrives

You might get away with it for up to a year in a pot but don't push it.  Also, they'll need watering (hot weather in particular) and feeding while waiting for their new home

[Trillium]

I congratulate you on doing the job well, Tinbasher.  Sounds like you've got wretched soil otherwise. The difference between what you're doing and what Neil did, is that the wood of raised beds doesn't last long and needs redoing every few years. We don't recommend creosoted wood as the toxic chemicals leach out over time. And it never seems to fail that the wood beds seem to collapse in a year when you're extra busy.
So pat yourself on the back that your job will last a VERY long time. And don't worry, those young plants will easily survive in pots for this season until you're ready. Again, keep up the watering for them.

[wellingtons]

... that my plot has a really deep lush topsoil, it's natural silty but has had so much worked into over the years that it's silty loam.

I fear the raised bed and working in lots of organic matter will be your best, but perhaps not the easiest or quickest solution.  Fruits are greedy feeders, but if you put in the initial work and then make sure you mulch and feed each season you'll get the fruit crops as a reward!