[azubah]

My two 2 year old hens stopped laying at the end of last year and have only produced 7 eggs between them since then, plus a few rubber eggs. I have been feeding them only layers pellets since the beginning of the year hoping to raise their calcium levels and get them to lay again. Can this be harmful to them if they are not using the calcium up? They seem to be drinking more than usual.

[joyfull]

they will be fine on just layers 
What breed of hens are they? some hybrids are designed to lay for just 2 years wheras other pure breeds will continue for 5 or more years (but less eggs a week).
Have you checked that they aren't laying any where else?

[Sassy]

What do you mean by rubber eggs? If they have laid a lash they are unlikely to lay again

[joyfull]

I assumed you meant shell less eggs which can have quite a strong membrane covering them 

[azubah]

Thanks for your replies, folks. By rubber eggs I did mean shell-less.

We are experiencing something new here.

People never kept hens as pets in the old days. They ate them if they stopped laying, so the problem of the best way to feed old, non-layers did not exist.
If the hens cannot use up the calcium to make eggshells then it must be going somewhere else.
If it is going into the bloodstream, then the concentration must rise to unmanageable levels in time. If it is not being absorbed then it stays in the digestive tract and is expelled, which solves the problem. I just don't know which may be happening.

[susan - happy hens]

Hi, My 3 rescue hens are probably over 2 years old now and I get about 5 eggs a week but most days there is a soft shelled egg in the nest box that they eat if I hav'nt discovered it.  Any help would be great.  Thanks.

[hillfooter]

Hi, My 3 rescue hens are probably over 2 years old now and I get about 5 eggs a week but most days there is a soft shelled egg in the nest box that they eat if I hav'nt discovered it.  Any help would be great.  Thanks.

Infectious Bronchitis is often what finally takes older birds (many birds carry this disease) and this is usually accompanied by a reduction in laying, reduced egg shell quality and sometimes watery albumens (the white of the egg), soft shelled eggs before they finally stop altogether. Check your birds for any sign of rales (rattley breathing).  

I've heard it suggested (I think from Gail Damerow the American chicken health guru) that improving hydration can help shell quality and right now I've got some older hens who have poor egg shell quality with some soft shelled and I'm trying an electrolyte drink made from the following ingredients.  I'm giving them this drink for 7 days and following it up with a multivitamin drink which should help calcium uptake.  I use a pig and poultry multi vitamin available in a large sachet from Wells or many farm suppliers and is much more economic than lifeguard.  It's too early to say yet from my experience if this will help though the initial signs look encouraging.

Disolve in 3 litres of water

5 ml of Salt substitute, (1 teaspoon of potassium chlorite)
7.5 ml (1 and a half teaspoons) of Bicarbarbonate of soda (baking soda)
15 ml (3 teaspoons) salt
20 ml (2 desert spoon) of glucose (optional)

Allow 200ml of drinking water per bird per day as a guide and mix up two days worth at a time in a drinker.

This is quite high in salt so I'd prefer to phase it out by topping up with fresh water after 6 days to water it down and so on until after nine days it's almost back to fresh water.  Then make up the multivits for seven days.

I would think that excess calcium would be extracted by a bird's kidneys and passed and wouldn't accumulate as is suggested (and would be fatal) .  I'm  not expert here though, so I'll check with my animal scientist consultant (daughter Clare).

HF

[azubah]

I would be interested in what your daughter has to say, hillfooter.
In humans, too much calcium in the kidneys ends up as stones. Not a nice thing to have.

I think that when they lay shell-less eggs it is not due to lack of calcium, but a hormonal problem, or something else that has  made the egg gland not do its job.
If they lay thin shelled eggs, it could be due to lack of calcium as they have clearly tried to make a shell but failed to make it thick enough.

[hillfooter]

I would be interested in what your daughter has to say, hillfooter.
In humans, too much calcium in the kidneys ends up as stones. Not a nice thing to have.

I think that when they lay shell-less eggs it is not due to lack of calcium, but a hormonal problem, or something else that has  made the egg gland not do its job.
If they lay thin shelled eggs, it could be due to lack of calcium as they have clearly tried to make a shell but failed to make it thick enough.

Well I asked Clare and this is the gist of her reply though once she starts talking about enzymes and thyroid glans etc I tend to lose her a bit.  However basically from what I could gather the kidneys extract the excess calcium and pass it in the urinates. The body self regulates the absorption of calcium and a feedback loop exists between the kidneys and the gut which regulates the enzymes which are needed to absorb calcium.  Hence they only absorb the amount they need.  However she did say that gross excess of calcium is not so good and should the regulation system malfunction then kidney stones could result.  

Personally I suspect that the extra calcium in layers which isn't needed by non-layers isn't going to cause a problem.  I've never heard it suggested that old hens or cocks shouldn't be given oyster shell.

HF

[hillfooter]

Hey I've just noticed that this site won't let me type coc*ks it changes it to cockerels.  Co cks are male chickens over the age of 1 year where as cockerels are young males so these terms aren't interchangable.  This is the second time I've noticed that something quite innocuous I've typed has been modified by the system.  Is there some kind of over zealous censorship operating here??  Rather than bothering with such an annoying nanny system wouldn't it be better to include a decent spell checker.

HF

[John]

Hi Hillfooter - those of us who have a decent browser already have a spell checker built in

On the serious point of the censor - we want to keep the site child friendly. Hence we remove some of the risqué jokes that appear in COP. There's no need for smut or blue jokes on here (even if some of them have me in stitches!)

On the automatic word change system. It's very difficult. We're not only thinking of how some words are used in our context but are also aware that the site is reviewed by automatic systems and you know that c o c k has a slang meaning.

Recently we had a post complaining about an advert appearing for a site that was devoted to growing a certain illegal herb. Now the effect of the post was to actually get the allotment site banned by some systems. Just one thread! I had emails from people who could no longer get the site at work.

I understand you finding the system over-zealous, so do I, but hope you can see why now.

[compostqueen]

I think my girls have finished their egg laying days so my question is what do I feed them on now?

Obviously I want them to remain healthy old ladies 

[hillfooter]

I think my girls have finished their egg laying days so my question is what do I feed them on now?

Obviously I want them to remain healthy old ladies  

I doubt that layers would be a problem unless they had a defective kidney function as excess calcium is passed in their urinates.  

However you could feed an increased ration of poultry corn to dilute the calcium.  Chicken growers has a lower level of calcium too and provided it doesn't have an increased level of protein (above 16%) or any medication you could use that (watch out for any tendancy to become fat and reduce the ration or feed more corn if there is).  I believe some specialist feed companies produce cockerel feed and I suspect this might be suitable too if you don't mind the extra expense.  

Basically they need a lower level of calcium around 1 to 1.5% (layers has 4%) and a reduced level of protein though I'm not sure what's an advisable level.

Cut out oystershell and just give insoluble grit (crushed gravel).

HF

[compostqueen]

Ah right!  Thanks for the info.  I have a big bag of oystershell at the mo but I can trade it for some grit

I have some mixed corn and I can keep using the layers til it's gone