Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat

Poultry and Pets => Poultry FAQs and other Information => Topic started by: Foxy on November 01, 2008, 18:03

Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Foxy on November 01, 2008, 18:03
There have been some truly heart-breaking accounts on here regarding the aftermath of a fox visit on our henhouses. Now is a very challenging time for all of us as Mr Raynaud gets braver and more cunning the hungerier he gets. Between all of us  perhaps we could come up with some tips, advice etc based on our experiences here.Just an idea as every little thing helps..

I thought I would kick off with electrified poultry netting. :D

I have been using electrified netting for nearly three years and my OH using it for a lot longer. Not once since using have we lost a chicken to the fox.
So how does it work? (scusme not very technical  :shock: ) Bascically you have either a battery powered system or mains both are just as effective.(I use both) The system consists of an "energiser" which converts low voltage (12v or 240v) into 6000 volts and quote my OH "its the volts that jolts!!!" :lol:  Now you need a metal pole to act as an "earth", some good units come with this and you use it to stick the energiser into the ground for example the hobbyhorse P450

http://www.forshamcottagearks.com/electric-fencing/P450-Electric-Fencing-Kit.htm

I have used this one and found it very easy to use and has the advantage of having a flashing light to tell you whether its on or off and the whole unit is just pushed into the ground using the earth pole itself, very easy!

When you have decided which type of energiser -mains or battery - make sure it is able to power the poultry net easily, for example always go for the most powerful energiser possible if you use a 50m poultry net go for one which will power 2 or 3 50m nets.  A quick note: if battery powered go for a good quality "leisure" battery which should last about 6 weeks between charges. The battery usually is attached using crocodile clips.

There are 2 main reasons for netting to fail 1. Human error you forget to turn it on 2. the net is "shorting" this simply means the power is being drained by the long grass or undergrowth around the live netting, so you need to make sure the undergrowth is strimmed around the base of the netting. Another good idea is to invest in a "fence tester" these will tell you the current "voltage" of the fence - anything 3,000 volts or above will be sufficent to deter the fox (and any humans! :shock: )I check mine every night, when its starts to drop I walk around the netting looking for long grass or obstructions ,sometimes fencing can sag at little, I check that the earth pole is driven deep enough into the ground.

You dont have to use poultry netting to protect your birds -some people I know using  tensioned wire placed at intervals around the base, middle and top of fencing I know this system was used at Holly Waterfowl Farm for many years very effectively. Personally I like the poultry netting -I use the green netting as it blends into the garden, but will be updating it all this winter to use a combination of tensioned wire and poultry netting.
Poultry netting is available in 25,50 and 100m lengths.
 
Finally never ever be complacent regarding your electrified netting -Mr Fox will always check and will know if its on or off. The only reason it wont work I firmly believe is down to human error.

This is a photo of Mr Raynaud stalking my fence -I had checked the fence the night before -if the fox had touched it he would have had a shock of 6,000 volts -although  sounds a lot its worth noting -would only shock us a and not cause us any physical damage -(excluding your pride that is! :lol: )

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t122/Kelly_Katherine/Fox.jpg)

I hope this helps! please add to it as I am sure the techies will!
 :D
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on November 01, 2008, 19:01
Excellent idea foxy.

The only fox-'proofing' I know is wire mesh. The physical barrier oft quoted on the forums.

Must be minimum 19gauge/1mm thickness steel wire galvanised mesh. Not chicken wire (hex). This will be too thin and a fox can chew through it. 25mmx13mm mesh will keep out most rats but 25mm will be adequate for foxes.
It should be as high as possible. For a walk in run, 5ft is usually adequate. If you can put a roof over, used either solid corrugated plastic or similar wire mesh. Also either bury 9-12" in the ground or run a 'skirt' around the bottom. You can also use slabs at the base.
Anything left around the perimeter will be used to climb in but they can also clamber up the sides and jump.
It's been said that they have similar agility to a cat. Keep this in mind as well as their strong teeth and jaws, as well good digging ability and you'll see the need for extra caution.

All of this assumes a fixed run. You can't move this around, once constructed.

Feel free to add to/contradict this also.

Rob 8)
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Foxy on November 02, 2008, 18:25
If using electric fencing.
Chickens are very well insulated against the shock due to their feathers.
I do have Pekins and small orpies and have never had a problem. Suppliers can provide quite small mesh which is recommended for smaller birds. I tend to put young birds in the electrified area over a time when I am around to watch them to ensure they are not running into the fence and getting caught, they do get used to it pretty quickly! :D

Here are a couple of sites you might find useful TMG... the one below has some good ideas to borrow...

http://www.davethefence.co.uk/FencingServices.html

and this site has info about small mesh netting at the bottom of the link,but also does contain some very comprehensive information about electrified poultry netting.

http://www.smallholdershop.co.uk/fencing.html

Hope this helps!
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on November 03, 2008, 18:40
Just a few more ideas that may, or may not, be deterrants. If anyone else can add to the list, however wild and wacky, it may put off a fox for a while.

I have some CDs hanging around the run at fox height. Also, several solar lights to cause a few flashes and a 150w PIR near the coop which may or may not come on if one appeared.
Obviously solidly built coop and reasonably built run as well. All doors and hatches bolted or latched so that a fox can't lift or open them.

Rob
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Evansent on November 06, 2008, 12:40
You did say wild and wacky ideas too didn't you?!!  

 Well I am going to build a scarecrow (or should that be scare fox?)  and put outside my run, so that they think a human is standing there, not sure how smart foxes are and how long it will take for them to realise though. It may also act as a double aid for making my chickens used to human company.

Still, my 5 year old son is really excited at the idea of making one and for that reason alone, i just have to. :)

C xx
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on November 06, 2008, 18:01
Sounds like a great idea Evansent. Apparently they are wary of anything different, so thwy will get used to it and ignore it but if you can move it around and change the smell of it, it should have an effect.
Also something like tin cans that might clang in the breeze and/or CDs to swing around.

Rob 8)
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on November 06, 2008, 18:25
This information courtesy of member "Clodbuster".....

Found this blog on a trial to keep foxes from predating chickens, thought it may be of interest to some.

http://electricfencing.blogspot.com/

Rob
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: karlooben on November 07, 2008, 19:25
please can i add something .

if like me you have built quite a large run but cant dig the wire into the ground { i tried it nearly killed me ,lol } an have had to use the L shape on the ground then i suggest that u try an get hold of old railway sleepers  or  motorway sleepers { these are similar to railway ones but not quite as long } they do come in different sizes and if u look hard enough they can be really cheap but also i can tell you  aint no fox going to dig or attempt to lift them .i was lucky when i got mine a few years ago from a freind who did some motorway work an he sold me 125 for £1.35 each  but they soon went on borders for ppls allotments .

an they last for ever as well i know that ppl with allotments tend to like to recycle so i figured i would add this .
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Fen on November 07, 2008, 21:06
I am sure that the advice given regarding electric fencing is sound.
But there may be cheaper options.For the last 12 years we  have had 30 chickens  in a wired area, of about 200 x200 yds split into 4 plots. All have access to a central chicken house.
We are next to a Nat Trust Reserve and see foxes weekly. We had an earth last year within 800 mtrs of the chicken runs.
Taking advice from an old gamekeeper we have kept all our chicken wire netting(5ft. high) slack between the posts as he told me that foxes will only climb a taught wire. We do bury the bottom  to stop the foxes digging underneath.
On the 'drawbridge' into the house we have used a metal footscraper which I am told foxes will not walk on.
Foxes haven't had any of our chickens but two years ago I had to shoot  a fox on his third visit to the chicken area in 24 hours.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Phil W on November 18, 2008, 21:25
Hi All. I'm in the process of setting my allotment up for poultry keeping. The 1 thing I am hearing and reading most is about keeping the foxes out. I'm big on recycling (and scrounging) what I can. So far my plans are 80m2 of block paving (an ex driveway) to be laid on edge 1 on top of another to a depth of about a foot and then another laid flat on top. Then I've scrounged a load of old wooden fencing (ex playing field 6ft plus boundary.) This will be cut in half and tidied up to make a fence of about 3ft high right around the pen. Above this (might have to buy it :cry: ) will be wire, hopefully weld mesh or chainlink, maybe small mesh chicken wire depending on finances, upto at least 6ft high. Also (from freecycle) I have a couple of very solid wooden gates 6ft tall.These will be hung as close as possible to the ground above a couple of freecycled paving slabs. I'm also planning netting over the top of the run to keep wild birds etc out. If this lot doesnt keep the foxes out I dont know what else it will need. I have thought about electric fencing but I share the pathway between my plot and my neighbour so I dont think thats an option.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on November 20, 2008, 20:17
Hi Phil.

Only thing I can think of is that a fox would be able to clamber up the 3ft fence, then up the top 3ft and gain access to the top. If the roof wasn't fox-proof, it might be able to chew through to the inside.

If you could make the top 3ft weldmesh or chainlink and have a bit of an overhang near the top, and/or make the roof either solid plastic (cost!) or weldmesh again. That's the ideal and my run isn't that good, but we're working towards it.

I elected for 25x13 weldmesh up to about 5'6" which makes it rat-resistant too.

Well done for scavenging. Wish I'd had access to some. Costs a fortune.

Rob 8)
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Clodbuster on November 24, 2008, 12:40
The nice thing about the poultry netting is it's portability, so easy to move around and the birds get new ground to peck over. I put a length of builders damp course under the net to prevent grass growing up and the net sagging onto the ground. I also use one of these new  Energisers (http://www.agrisellex.co.uk/hotshock-a15-2120-0.html) that run at 10000v to give foxy a good belt. The chooks also don't escape at all.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roll Roll on November 27, 2008, 20:46
It seems electric fencing is the way to go. I know of one instance where a fox repeatedly charged at the chicken wire on a pigeon loft so as to push the wire off the frame, he almost did it to before being disturbed. The only lesson learned here was to put the mesh infront of the frame. I know it isnt as attractive but the more he charges the more he pushes it against the frame so making stronger, I think??
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Crisper on December 15, 2008, 12:45
Hi, having just had our first fox attack, albeit he failed as I chased him away, I have been doing a lot of research on how to protect them from further attacks.

As I have cats and a small child an electric fence isn't the best solution for me, but I have read that male (human) urine works well, so I now have my poor hubby trudging up the garden regularly to pee round the outside of their run!

Any other non-electrical ideas greatly welcomed :)
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on December 15, 2008, 16:50
I have found SITE (http://www.foxproject.org.uk/) to be very informative about foxes.

Under the 'deterrence' section, they give some good advice, and there's some interesting info about their behaviour.

I think knowing your enemy is the best way of beating him. I'd like to get to the stage where we can secure our run well enough that a fox sighting would be no more of a problem than a blackbird.
That said, I wouldn't want to get complacent. :)

Rob 8)
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: pushrod on December 21, 2008, 18:54
If you are using electric fencing you might get hedgehogs caught in it. They just curl onto the fence and will die unless quickly freed. You can reduce the chance of this by putting 6"X1" planks vertically along the base. You can also reduce the grass growing against the fence problem by putting a 30mm wide damproof course on the grass first and pushing your net posts through it.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: andreadon on January 07, 2009, 13:59
The extension to our chicken run is in the corner; which means that two sides are brick wall (one side is the chicken house and the other is an eight foot high wall).  We dug out the bottom 2 feet with a mini digger (oh! the fun we had!!) and lined the entire hole, including the brick-wall-sides (and an overlap on the exposed sides), with two layers of scrounged chicken wire (because we've been told that chicken wire is too flimsy for foxes), all overlapped and joined together.
We have filled the hole back in with rubble and the soil that came out.
the next stage will be to make a small trench around the edges (where the overlap wire is) which we will fill with concrete, in which the posts will go.
The base of the run will be 2"x2" right round the edge, on the concrete (all four sides) and then we're building the whole thing up with a frame of 2"x2" which will be covered in 19gauge 1sqcm mesh (up the exposed sides and the roof - we don't need to do the wall sides)
It'll be like fort knox!
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: peanut on January 11, 2009, 11:15
If electric fencing isn't an option - the L shaped skirted bottom is ideal, but if you can combine with digging in, all the better.

Basically, a fox will dig at the bottom of a fence - if you have a strong wire mesh skirt of at least 10" in depth, the fox will continue trying to dig at the base of the actual upright fence, thus rendering his/her digging a complete waste of time and resulting in very sore paws.

Although clever animals, they can't work out skirts.  I've had mine for 3 years now and no problems, although I have seen foxes in the area.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on January 18, 2009, 16:22
Can I just say that electrified netting may work with your "local" fox but as foxes are individuals each can act very different.  My local fox understands my fence so well that he/she is able to enter and exit with ease.  The only way possible is over.  I have one chicken left after this morning between 9 and 10 am (the girls where alive at 8am).  I am now having to give up chicken keeping till I can build a permanent run.  I have given my only chicken left to a local chicken keeper as I can not keep her secure till I have built a run.    I lost two chickens three weeks ago and today I lost five.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on January 19, 2009, 13:29
Quote from: "poultrygeist"
.................. Also either bury 9-12" in the ground or run a 'skirt' around the bottom. ...................


What size would your skirt be in inches and this time I am not being funny. You mention that you would bury 9-12 inches down.  Should I put 9-12 inches in a skirt?
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on January 19, 2009, 14:22
Sorry to hear about your attack.
I have a skirt about 9" with 12" slabs on top.
This, I think, would deter a fox from digging under, btu doesn't stop rats.

If I did it again, I would go for 9" buried (weldmesh) with slabs around the outside as a skirt.

Forces them back from the fence and if they do try to dig, they're stopped in their tracks. Needs to be 13x25mm mesh to stop rats but for foxes just a 1mm (19g) mesh).

The best places to look for advice are the fox monitoring websites such as Bristol Fox Group. They dispel a lot of myths and give practical information.

Rob
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Clodbuster on January 23, 2009, 14:57
Quote from: "Roughlee Handled"
My local fox understands my fence so well that he/she is able to enter and exit with ease.  The only way possible is over.


May I suggest you make sure your net is running at 6000v. The only correct way is with a tester but touching it with the back of the hand and if it hurts bad it should be OK. The best solution will be to place some bait on the live wire. There are some proprietary Bait Caps but wrapping a few strips of bacon or intestines around the net strands so he has to use his tongue to get it off. The tongue is highly enervated and sensitive and I promise he will not jump over again.   :twisted:  Buy you a beer if he does.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on January 23, 2009, 15:13
I can guarantee you that my fence is running at 9000v. I have a tester.  I will not be using the eletric fence again for chickens again.  I do not trust it and will not trust it again. Not even for a beer.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on January 25, 2009, 17:27
Quote from: "Clodbuster"
As you wish, here's a link to a trial done protecting chooks from foxes.

http://electricfencing.blogspot.com/2008/11/using-electric-fence-to-protect-poultry.html


Very interesting. But as I stated " foxes are individuals each can act very different. "  My local fox has jumped over a 105cm electrified poultry fence in broad day light.
Therefore I can not trust the electric fence.  It has been in place for 5 months. Lots of time for the fox to test it and longer than the trial.  I could shoot the fox but there will only be another fox that may also have the same knowledge.  For me I will only have peace of mind when I have built a run with a high fence.
Title: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Clodbuster on January 26, 2009, 15:46
I'm not sure but the fox may have developed the technique of jumping over a fence before the electric net was installed? This technique is evident with Springbok and Impala from South Africa and Deer here. As a whole they do not test an obstacle but will simply jump it. As a result EF was considered in-effective for that type of animal until fairly recently and this is where baiting was developed to draw the animal onto the fence and so educate it, once educated their pattern alters totally and respect for the fence ensues.  

It's a pity you've decided to remove the EF, I'd have loved to have seen if it worked.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: pushrod on February 02, 2009, 11:11
I lost a chicken this morning to a fox as i accidentally forgot to reset my electric fence last night   >:(  I must admit that i have occasionally forgot to do this before but i suspect the snow on it may have made him investigate again. My cockerel sleeps outside and surprisingly he survived. The fox managed to take the roof off my small house and take a buff orpington but she is such a big bird that he wasn't able to get away with her. One bird was still in the house and another had got over the fence herself and somehow managed to survive outside.

Obviously my fault but the worrying thing that with some degree of success the fox will be back- think i will be putting a little scrap of bacon around the wire.

the hen just had her neck broken and no other apparent damage - so looks like a winter chicken soup with the last of the leeks and carrots for tea!
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: shiatsusu on February 05, 2009, 11:50
We built our run a fortnight ago in prep for the girls arrival using chicken wire dug into and under the fence. So far no fox problems but our pup managed to chew a hole in it trying to get to a bread roll. Has anyone any experience of foxes gnawing through wire? I'm now worried!
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on February 05, 2009, 11:54
If you scroll up a few to my previous post Shiatsusu, you can see the minimum spec of the wire mesh needed for fox proofing.
I'm afraid chicken wire (hex) is only designed for keeping chickens in and not for keeping any predators out. You need proper square welded mesh with a minimum 1mm (19g) thickness. It is more expensive but chicken wire offers no protection whatsoever.

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: shiatsusu on February 05, 2009, 12:14
Thanks Rob- I'll talk to other half and sort that out
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: drumcrow on February 05, 2009, 20:17
here is two little ideas i use and so far i still have all my hens :) :) the first one is to get human hair and stuff it in to ladys tights and put it around the boundary of were you keep your chickens... the second one is get your hubby or any one MALE to pee yes pee in to a bottle and spray it again arond the boundary of were you keep your chickens. hope this helps in some way. :)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: shiatsusu on February 10, 2009, 09:11
We knew an old boy who lived in the middle of a wood and swore by stuffing tights with old socks then soaking them in jayes fluid and hanging around the perimeter fence to ward off foxes. As far as I know he never lost a single bird. Pretty smelly stuff  ;)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on February 10, 2009, 09:42
There's a few websites with up to date, sensible advice from people who have studied fox behaviour.

A couple I've found are...

http://www.foxproject.org.uk/

and

http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/index.html

I hope these help. The methods you are using may well work for a while, but foxes are very intelligent and will soon work out that the deterrant offers no threat and is easily bypassed. If you have a physical barrier such as a large weldmesh fence or one with a threat, such as an electric fence that they have felt the effects of, they have little choice but to keep away.

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: shiatsusu on February 11, 2009, 13:43
As there seems to be debate on the strength of using scent as a fox deterrant I had a look on the web and found the following link. I don't think anyone would argue that a suitably constructed fence with or without an electrical current is the best way to make certain the birds are safe, but I also think it will be a sad day when we completely ignore so called "old wives tales"- often these are the result of centuries of experience and observation.

http://www.bio.bris.ac.uk/research/mammal/foxscent.html
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on February 11, 2009, 13:51
I think the point is, as shown in that article, that foxes use scent markings extensively, but human scents only have limited and temporary effects. This has been shown in studies.
Agreed that a lot of folklore is useful, fascinating and often based on solid truths, but a lot isn't and where the safety and welfare of poultry or other animals is concerned, I'd rather try to push the best ideas.
The other big fox-based myth is that they kill for sport. It's still gets cited but is a complete misunderstanding.
Know thine enemy is a good mantra to anyone with poultry !!  :)

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on February 11, 2009, 13:53
Beat me to it Poultrygeist. 
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Foxy on February 11, 2009, 14:08
very interesting link :)
Urban foxes though are much less wary of humans than rural foxes -so less likey to be distracted by "human" scent. In a rural area I would say it is more likely to be effective.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: shiatsusu on February 11, 2009, 15:05
Any debate that shares ideas and opens up the discussion has to be a good one  :) I suspect male foxes would be wary initially of male pee because of the pherenomes- this is how they mark their territory to one another after all, but if you read my message I'm not suggesting using it as a replacement for secure boundary fencing. I disagree about foxes not killing for sport, although we may be arguing over definitions here  ??? We once lost 25 hens out of 30 in one afternoon (missed an early ferry and by the time we got back it was dusk and the fox had been). It was complete carnage yet he only actually took two away. I'd seen the fox watching the hen area during the previous week and assume he'd worked out people were not around when he took his chance. These hens were free range with only field boundary fences but in eleven years those were the only hens killed by foxes. 
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on February 11, 2009, 16:35
It must be terrible when it happens. I've not had the misfortune thankfully. But plenty here have.

They apparently kill everything within sight, because they're opportunistic killers and don't know when they'll next find food. They take one or two immediately with the intention of coming back for the rest when it's safe. These will mostly be buried for later.
In most cases, once you discover the attack, it's not safe for the fox to return and the carcasses and casualties are removed or secured.
The only animals i know of that kill for sport are humans, unless you include cats who play with their prey for some reason I've yet to discover (ours included) >:(

Rob
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on February 11, 2009, 23:05
i agree with you Rob, when the fox took mine from the cowshed, a lot of the bodies were missing, i picked some up and put them on a trailer before going back to the farm and alerting everyone to what had happened, in just a few minutes of being away the fox or foxes came back and took them from the trailer, in all 29 hens and one cockerel dissapeared without trace, we were told they had probably been buried in the wood behind the cow shed so the fox could retrieve them at a later date, we searched and searched but found nothing but a couple of patches of feathers, i'm still in a dilemma over my 27 remaining girls, i don't want to pen them in but nor do i want a repeat performance, since the local farmers made a posse and blasted 8 foxes in 2 weeks we haven't lost a single one, and i hope it stays that way.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on February 12, 2009, 08:47
Trouble is, the dispersal of teh youngsters will bring more into the area. If you want to protect them without keepign them in a run, an electric fence is about your only option.

There will always be predation and you can't shoot them all.  :(

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: turnip on February 13, 2009, 21:28
hi,
i know i'm only a newbie to the forum but just wanted to say my two girlies poppy and jenny live in an eglu at night and free range in garden during the day,  I have a sonic Foxwatch  device which i think is effective as have had no fox probs since i got it last summer.

 I leave it on 24/7 as i go out during the day quite often  and the noise is supposed to teach foxes that it knows when they come into range as it goes off when they leave the area. 

I think though that if i had the girls futher from the house or on an allotment i would probably do the electric fence thing.   best wishes  love turnip.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: attillathehen on February 18, 2009, 23:55
I found this great forum whilst looking for advice on electric fencing.  Fed up with dog walkers allowing their dogs to run wild I have decided the only way to keep the hens safe is a electric fence.  So with a good buy on ebay I am now ready to allow the hens back out into the garden. 

Ive read with interest the comments about foxes jumping fences and can only comment that a very large commercial free range chicken farm near us uses a 3 line electric fence and has never experienced predation by foxes. I am hoping that the local fox population has been well trained to avoid a electric fence - I shall be baiting it just to make sure.

I always wondered why my dad used to go and pee on the chicken shed - well it failed to stop the foxes as I can remember the carnage.  They were different times and my dad would leave the carcases in place hoping to shoot the returning fox - as stated the fox population never seemed to be diminished as youngsters would always be in line to replace the dead fox.

Know thy enemy - well he is a handsome intelligent hunter and despite his causing me so much distress I would miss this beautiful animal if he wasn't around.  Don't forget that badgers can be as big a pest as foxes - they are also much stronger and can break into houses that would stop a fox.   Hopefully they wont like electric fences either.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on April 05, 2009, 13:30
On my reading for electric fencing for pigs I came up with this gem of information. 

For a secure boundary fence which will also exclude foxes, consider a 9 wire fence approximately 120cms (4ft) high, using stranded steel wire. With the fence wired alternatively live/earth a fox scrambling over or jumping between wires will receive a shock even though his feet are off the ground.
found here

http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalSwine.aspx (http://www.rutland-electric-fencing.co.uk/PageAnimalSwine.aspx)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: henrys.hens on April 10, 2009, 19:07
A way someone i no did, He bated a fox trap when the fox was caught he phoned up a friend and he came and shot it, After that he got the fox blood and smeered it all over the hen house and on the fencing and he says he has never had another fox come near since then.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Aunt Sally on April 10, 2009, 19:32
Woooow....  that's a bit gruesome Henry  :ohmy:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on April 10, 2009, 19:48
 :ohmy:

I prefer the barrier method  ???

Wouldn't the blood attract rats too ?

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: henrys.hens on April 11, 2009, 12:54
I dont know. :lol:
it worked for him.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: littlewitch on July 10, 2009, 08:54
Hi there,  One idea you might try (seems to work for us so far!) dig in around base of run and sink (lengthwise approx 10inches deep) plastic roofing slates , overlapped a few inches at each 'join', then drilled and wired to your enclosure wire/mesh at intervals of few inches to secure.  Cost of tiles approx £8/10 plus copper wire stripped out from  2.5mm electric cable.   :nowink: :blink:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: HairyBear on July 13, 2009, 16:43
Holy cow!

Completely new to hen keeping - in fact I don't pick my ladies up until Sunday.  IN the final preparation stages and thought I had the whole fox issue covered, but looking at this I haven't.

Have a permanent run which is aluminium structure with up and over netting (sold as hen enclosure) but I've added a further layer of 19 gauge mesh which I've dug down about 8 inches and set under broken paving slabs.  There will be a layer of soil over this, then a semi-permeable membrane, and then wood bark.  The mesh only stands about 3 foot above ground. 

Could a fox chew through the chicken netting at the right height and therefore be able to jump over the mesh?

I know they're wiley, but this is truly worrying.

I have a 2 year old son so didn't want to go for electric fencing but is this my only option???  Perhaps having mains controlled fencing and sticking a big sign on the backdoor reminding us to switch on/off might be the besting we keep our chicken and protect our son from a nasty shock!

I've also ordered 'Scoot' which was referred to on these pages.  Is that enough on its own???  :blink:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on July 13, 2009, 16:50
I would suggest you have electric fence unit.  Do not turn it off. I have mine plugged in to a socket with out a switch so I can not be turned off. You will forget to turn it back on.
With regards to you littley, I hope I am not being too hard, but once he has touched it he will not want to touch it again.  They do not harm (electric fences), just make you jump.  Oh they kill the odd slug and frog.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Kate and her Ducks on July 16, 2009, 21:30
We were around electric fencing a lot when we were little and trust me you learn quickly.  My parents could corral us with a piece of string!
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: mrjolly on August 30, 2009, 07:22
Hi,
I'd have slight reservations about peeing near electric fences though. It seems one or the other would be good!
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Roughlee Handled on August 30, 2009, 19:57
Hi,
I'd have slight reservations about peeing near electric fences........




????
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Ice on August 30, 2009, 20:12
Water is an excellent conductor of electricity. ;)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: lightyears on August 31, 2009, 13:05
this might sound a bit stupid, but a bloke at my allotments has his dog pee up the side of his pen as he reckons that the local fox is scared of dogs and that can smell the dog and thinks it is nearby, since this, there has not been a fox killing or one on site in almost a year. I think it is something similar to foxes being hunted by dogs, they are naturally scared
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on August 31, 2009, 13:09
Might work. Until another fox notices that there's a vacant 'patch' full of takeaway food and doesn't happen to be as scared of dogs as the last one. :(

That's when you see wholesale massacre because no-one's got a proper fence "because there are no foxes round here".

I'd put up a sturdy fence and take all the precautions assumign a fox is going to visit anyway. Some easy remedies may work, or may not, but it only takes one visit from a really hungry fox that doesn't fit the norm.

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: lightyears on August 31, 2009, 13:14
Might work. Until another fox notices that there's a vacant 'patch' full of takeaway food and doesn't happen to be as scared of dogs as the last one. :(

That's when you see wholesale massacre because no-one's got a proper fence "because there are no foxes round here".

I'd put up a sturdy fence and take all the precautions assumign a fox is going to visit anyway. Some easy remedies may work, or may not, but it only takes one visit from a really hungry fox that doesn't fit the norm.

Rob 8)


dont worry i have built a fortress as ive listened to the old guys before and got burnt(another story) i assume that the fox is hungry and he is going to try and get in whatever i try. its up to the others what they do but im building in preparedness for the inevitable
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: tode on August 31, 2009, 13:16
I don't think you should ever think that there's no foxes so no problem. When mowing the grass afew weeks ago at 3 in the afternoon, noticed a pair of eyes in the bushes: cheeky b****r was sitting in the shade watching me mow.
There's a lot more of em than we think.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on August 31, 2009, 13:19
Well done you ! :D

I've heard so many old wives tales about foxes and their habits, you'd think they were from another planet. ::)
They follow the same set of rules as everythign else on the planet and have the same needs and drives. As you say, if they're hungry, they take risks. And because of their natural abilities and their 'food caching' behaviour, they'll kill whatever's in reach and take it, one at a time, until they've buried the lot or got scared away. Who can blame them when the only thing between them and food is often a piece of rusty chicken wire and some stale urine.  ::)

Rant over. :D

Rob 8)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on August 31, 2009, 15:57
foxes and their habits vary, the fox that took the cowshed girls last year never came near the farm but skirted the edges until he got an opportunity to strike, this years fox actually took a bird right from under Pip's nose in the chook paddock (she didn't even have time to get to her feet and the fox and bird were gone) i'm assuming the next fox will be able to open doors, take a bird from off my bed then drive off with it in my car, never underestimate the cunning fox........................
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: tode on August 31, 2009, 16:16
Shouldn't leave your car-keys laying about ........   ;)
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on August 31, 2009, 17:13
fox ud find em, they're good at that.................
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: poultrygeist on August 31, 2009, 17:39
Is it them that hide remote controls too ?  :unsure:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: joyfull on August 31, 2009, 18:20
Shouldn't leave your car-keys laying about ........   ;)

they probably know how to hot wire the car as well  :lol:

Is it them that hide remote controls too ?  :unsure:

Think that must be where mine has gone  >:(
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on August 31, 2009, 20:49
next time i see a fox i might ask him how to program the video..........
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: lightyears on August 31, 2009, 23:29
video? now thats a bit old hat, the fox can set sky+ to record in norwich
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on September 01, 2009, 13:47
i still have a million video's, therefore i still have a video player that i haven't been able to program since 1985 when i bought it :D

i also have a tv video dvd combi and i can't program that either :tongue2:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: too many girls on September 01, 2009, 13:47
i can set the clock tho :tongue2:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: tode on September 01, 2009, 15:25
Just watch out that Fox doesn't set your video, then empty your coop while you're watching    :ohmy:
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Expedite on March 02, 2010, 09:41
New to the forums only recently found them and thought i would post a handy little gadget we now use here in Australia on our small farm.

We have chooks and new lambs each year and since buying one of these - http://www.foxlights.com/ as a tester have not seen a fox near the house area where we keep our chooks since. I dont know if he ships overseas but the Fox Light has one quite a few Aussie awards.

We plan on getting around 4 and setting up a full grid around the yards near the house.

Happy to pass on any more info on how it works and so forth if people are interested.

Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: joyfull on March 02, 2010, 10:22
hello expedite and welcome, why not nip on over to the welcome forum and introduce yourself to us all properly. I don't know if this foxlight would work over hear as we have lots of urban foxes that have been known to take chickens in broad daylight even when people have been near - but not near enough to stop it happening  :(. It might work though for rural foxes who are more afraid of humans.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Junie on May 11, 2010, 10:03
Back in November, Fen described his set up for fox proofing.  My hens are fully free range - I love to see them.  However we have lost 4 in the last 2 weeks, 2 yesterday at around midday.  they have an outdoor run of about 3 by 3 metres and a 3 x4 metre concrete brick henhouse, which they are locked in overnight. ( I now have 10 hens and one cockerel ) We are planning an orchard and I would like to have my hens wandering in there during the day.  Fens description of a 200 yd by 200 yd enclosure sounded perfect.  This is my first post so cannot send a personal message but would love some more information on his fence, size of wire , and if possible a picture.   Thanks
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Knight Family on July 05, 2010, 12:20
well for your Orchard I would recomend an electric fence, thats my plan when I purchase one tonight, ready for the weekend....
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Junie on July 06, 2010, 08:27
Have recently bought a small electric fence ( 25 metres to see how it goes ) We have to carry the chickens to it for the day, but they run back home in the evening.  They seem much happier since we brought out their nestboxes, only one escapee on the first day,, trying to get back to lay an egg.  So far so good after about 3 weeks and when we get out orchard going we will probably use electric fencing.  It has been good to see all the advice on this thread and helped me make my decision.

My neighbour swears playing his radio, near the hen house.  We did wonder what on earth he was on about ( our French is not brilliant and his accent is difficult to understand sometimes) but he turns it on about 4pm - says it works for him!  Bit my hits were at midday nd I actually saw the fox sitting by the henhouse at 12.30 in the afternoon, it did not run when it saw me - only when my Jack Russel took chase!
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Rita on August 18, 2010, 22:10
great to see everyone doing there best to deter the fox and keeping your chicks and ducks safe as possible.
i am always looking out for ideas how to keep them safe, without killing the fox.
some great ideas keep them coming, i had one on the patio looking in at the chickens, lucky there electric door was still shut and not opened up to let them out in the field other wise they would of been goners for sure, keeping the door shut for longer now so that i am up and about when they come out of there enclosure.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: mothership on January 09, 2011, 08:29
I thought I would just let people know that I have an electric fence running all the time, the snow stopped it working and as such the fox got in and took three chickens - killed then but could not get them out of the run.  I cleared the snow away, removed the carcasses and got the fence running at full tilt again, having bought a new energiser to deal with the two fences I have joined together. Then I had no trouble for about a week, then one chicken was killed.  Again, I baited the fence, and again nothing for another week.  We have had a lot of rain, and in order to get the fence to work properly, I have had to remove some of the pegs keeping it in place as when it is under water it does not work, trenches dug and pegs removed I got upwards of 6000v. in  the fence, yesterday, he took another, but could not get it out.  The fox then as I was up there putting hens to bed came back to the field.  I chased him away.

I have human hair on my fence and will put more on it today.  I bought a fox trap last week. Whilst I think they look lovely I would rather the fox was in someone else's field.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: joyfull on January 09, 2011, 09:10
remember though when caught you should get the fox disposed off properly and not released elsewhere.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: mothership on January 16, 2011, 06:57
The fox will be shot
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: hillfooter on January 18, 2011, 12:07
Here's a link on a trial which was carried out on the effectivenes of electric nets.  Worth a read.

I've used electric nets for around 10 years and never lost a chicken which was behind one.  They aren't foolproof but as effective a deterant as any short of total enclosure with fox proof mesh.

http://www.agrisellex.co.uk/fox-fencing-trial-3165-0.html.

Some one mentioned hanging up CDs and I've found Cliff Richard ones to be most effective no self respecting fox would go near one - boom! boom!

HF
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: hillfooter on January 18, 2011, 12:30
Water is an excellent conductor of electricity. ;)

Well actually ICE this isn't so.  Pure water is almost a perfect insulator it's the impurities in it which can form an electrolyte which makes it conduct.  If pure water wasn't an insulator you wouldn't be able to top up a lead acid batery with distilled water.

When your skin is wet the salts and other impurities are wetted and reduce the insulation of your skin so making it easier to get a shock.
HF
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: hillfooter on January 18, 2011, 12:47
I read about the fox lights devices which sounds like they might work but it's very expense and only works at night which isn't much use in my book.  Chx should be shut up at night anyway and this can be more cheaply and reliably ensured with an automatic pophole opener and closer which has other benefits too.  I'd definitely consider one in my armoury of anti fox measures.  You can have lie in and an evening out too without worrying about visiting the chx.

I use electric fences in the day time and auto openers & closers at night.  I also spray fox deterrant but that's more for my benefit really.

HF
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Frizzle1 on February 13, 2011, 11:24
May be a bit late to add to this topic but I will anyway. I leave my crocs that I clean the chickens out in outside the hen house and when foxy comes in he comes across the shoes first so he takes them because they smell of chicken to the middle of the grass chews them for half hour without damaging them and that seems to satisfy him and he disappears job done.
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: hillfooter on February 13, 2011, 12:18
May be a bit late to add to this topic but I will anyway. I leave my crocs that I clean the chickens out in outside the hen house and when foxy comes in he comes across the shoes first so he takes them because they smell of chicken to the middle of the grass chews them for half hour without damaging them and that seems to satisfy him and he disappears job done.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: I think I'd prefer to electrify my shoes but you must win the prize for the most eccentric and bizarre tall story solution to detering foxes.   I suppose after 30 mins of chewing your  shoes he has lost his appetite and goes off to be sick in some hedgerow.  I just love the mental image of you searching the field barefooted looking for your fox slobber soaked shoes too.  Bet you are popular down the pub afterwards. :D

HF
Title: Re: Fox proofing for our chickens
Post by: Frizzle1 on February 13, 2011, 13:18
Yes it maybe a bit bizarre but it does work lol. The only time I can recall the shoes being damaged was with a young vixen probably that years cub, think she was teething, she came back night after night just to chew my shoe but at least she left the hens alone and cleaned the shoes up well.