Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: paul_holmes on February 05, 2007, 16:52
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Hi all, I have 15 rods of allotment (yes I am mad) I have cleared 5 rods and have already planted a few beans and garlics in there. the problem I have is the remaining 10 rods, it is totally covered in grass, weeds(twitch its called apparently). As I do not have all the time in the world before I need to have veg growing is there any quick way of getting things going or have i really got to spend the next 30 years of my life pulling up this stuff? Is covering and placing raised beds a good thing to do? Expensive I know, but save time? Any suggestions? Many thanks.
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My advice would be to tackle it a bit at a time - you may not get the whole 15 rods into action this year. A lot of crops (sweetcorn, squashes etc) won't go into the ground for months yet, so there's no point in clearing ground now that won't get planted up until May - you'll just get weeds coming back. Try covering the weeds with hessian backed carpet, cardboard or newspapers - that'll smother the *.
I'd take a "dig and plant" approach - dig each lump as and when you need to put something in it, that way, when you're feeling discouraged by what you've got left to dig, you can look behind you, and see stuff growing in the bit you've already worked. Good for morale boosting, and less trying on the back!
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I used round up on my twitch best to do it in the spring although the weather we are having at the momment all my weeds are growing splendidly :x I used round up to make the plot manageable , now am as organic as possible .
HTH
Frey
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Hi Paul,
I'm with Mel on this one... in the last four years I've had two new plots: with then first I tried to clear the whole thing - by the time I got to the other end the beginning was covered in weeds again!
So, with my new plot I worked bed by bed (not too small), as I needed them. On the rest I kept the weeds at bay with carpet. I do try to be organic, but resorted to using Round-Up weedkiller on the bindweed and bramble which there was an awful lot of.
Good luck!
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I poured petrol on it and tourched it. Exciting couple of hours but all sheds survived :shock:
If its long strim it first then burn it. Do early before the fussy ones arrive.
You can then get some machinery on the job.
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u should be renamed big mad frankie lolo an arsonist and a rotavatorholic :lol:
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thanks for the replies guys. not sure the napalm idea would be too acceptable to my joining plots but believe me if i said the thought of burning the whole plot hadnt crossed my mind i would be lying. the dig and plant method seems to be the best option. As I am new I have bought about 50 different seeds to get going so I guess that was a bit ambitious, hooo hum. Thanls for all your words of wisdom and encouragement. :D
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I used glyphosate (aka roundup) - although being wholly organic is a laudable goal I am willing to compromise to save myself work. After initial clearing, then remaining couch grass can be manually dug out bed by bed when conditions are right, I find it quite a rewarding task.
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:D hi when i first got my lotty i like you dug what i need ed and then i dug out any remaining brambles or large docks raked off any loose matrial and then laid down old carpets on the rest and then when it was time to plant later in may i lifted the carpet and it was like a miricle lovely soil underneith. all i had to do then was fork out the white roots added some organic matter and away you go .i havent looked back since .
just enjoy your self its not a race good luck :D
lol and sorry for me spelling :roll:
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Bl**dy carpets!!!
When I took on plot 2 - the weeds had grown through & rooted the blighters. Ineffective & took us ages and a lot of effort to drag them off.
One of the plot holders on my site is a Professor of Horticulture. He says, and it sounds reasonable, that if you are going to 'carpet' or cover any ground, it has to be done for a whole year. That is the ony way to fully interupt a plant's life cycle. No point putting it down for a month or two. I suppose my problem here was that it had been down for about 5 years!
I may upset one or two here - but when I go down to my plot - I'd sooner see God's own plants, (weeds), than some 70's carpet.
I don't see glyphosphate as a problem - that's my personal opinion. On contact with the ground it ceases to be inactive. When I took on my first plot, the council strimmed the top growth and I then rough dug it. Come spring the new growth was greeted with Round Up. Since then not so many weeds seem to want to reciprocate the greeting.
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:wink: wow now thats hard wareing carpet ,
i,m not surprised it had grown in. i only would leave the carpet down while i wasn,t working on it just to surpress the growth .
alternativly i would of said put a few hens on that piece of ground. they would clear and fertilise it alswell but thats prob not a good idea with the bird restritions and all. if not just have a bear and dig party its all good excersise .sorry if i offended all the anti carpet people. was just a tried and tested method down here in norfolk. :oops: sorry about spelling my brain needs more compost me thinks. :shock:
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Bl**dy carpets!!!
Absol - blooming - lutely!!!
There appears to be [no respect to anyone intended] a tendancy for carpets to be used by some, not all, for a quick fix. Sadly they, the carpets that is, are left and left until the weeds grow through. Soil gathers on the surface. So you end up with a nasty sandwich of soil with weeds, carpet with weeds and then on top soil with weeds. When this happens people then put down another carpet on top. Then what happens is they give up the plot. As someone who has cleared a large area "carpeted and underlayed in such a way" I would say ban carpets all together. I couldn't tell you of the number of times I have cursed my former allotmenteer and their "bl**dy" nylon carpets and rubber underlay. A straight dig is OK but cutting through this carpet mix is hell.
So forget carpets and dig the soil and remove the roots, that is what spades are for. Then dig it again, and again, and again until the perennial weeds are gone. Look upon it as a battle in which you are going to be the winner and get fitter and fitter as the weeds get weaker and weaker.
Rant over :evil:
Dragonfly
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:wink: wow now thats hard wareing carpet ,
i,m not surprised it had grown in. i only would leave the carpet down while i wasn,t working on it just to surpress the growth .
alternativly i would of said put a few hens on that piece of ground. they would clear and fertilise it alswell but thats prob not a good idea with the bird restritions and all. if not just have a bear and dig party its all good excersise .sorry if i offended all the anti carpet people. was just a tried and tested method down here in norfolk. :oops: sorry about spelling my brain needs more compost me thinks. :shock:
We had to give up our first allotment 12 years ago (three kids...no time) but have recently restarted on a plot only a few hundred feet from our old one...when we wandered down to take a look...there was our old living room carpet from when we had had the plot! The new owners had still been using it over 15 years since we had originally hoofed it down there... :lol:
For what it's worth, we were always advised to put carpet furry side down, for some reason...I guess furry side up encourages seeding of the carpet...either way, if it's down for more than a couple of years it ends up with stuff growing right through it. I still find it easier to clear than non-carpet stuff and the soil underneath is always much easier to dig...IMHO
:roll:
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Hi paul I had the same problem when I took on a plot, I cut off the top inch or so with the shovel and piled up the turfs it was easier to dig but not purfect. Your spuds dont need all the weeds out they will happily grow in semi weeds then carry on on weeding the rest if it looks too much then leave it until next year but cover what you won't touch with plastic or CARPET it will be so much easier to dig. Because I am the end plot I piled the turfs against the fence and forgot about them 16 months later I have a lovely top soil like earth to throw back on the plot, good luck and happy digging. :) :) :) :) :)
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Well, like weedkillers, if you use carpet responsibly, it is incredibly useful. I didn't put any down on my beds in the end, as I got all of them dug and weeded pretty thoroughly in one season, even though I hadn't expected to. I do use it on my paths, because I don't have a lawnmower, and it makes life a bit less muddy - ideal with a three year old running about the place.
When or if the people who have the overgrown (understatement - spotted a GORSE bush growing there at the weekend) plot next door ever decide to do something with their plot, their first plan of action is to "throw a load of poison all over it" - think I'd rather have carpet, meself :lol:
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For my 2 pennyworth, the only proper use of carpet on an allotment is either on top of the compost heaps or as a cosy lining for the shed.
Due to the succession of highly respected plonkers on the television over the past 30 odd years desperately avoiding any task they cannot do, the population at large has lost the understanding of how to dig and consequently get into a pickle when faced with reality.
On the allotment there is no 'cover with carpet, cut away to flower show for 3 mins while contractors dig it, return and sow some seed'. You throw a carpet on the plot and think 'one year and no weeds' but nature thinks one year to breed 3 million slugs and another 6 weeks to put the weeds back'.
The best allotments grow the best weeds. There is no winning here, just control. You clear the weeds and dig. The weeds regrow you re-weed, the weeds re-grow.
Get used to it.
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Good point, and well made - but I still feel that if you're clearing a plot from scratch, it can't hurt to cover the weeds you can't manually dig just yet - if for no other reason that to reduce the amount of weed seeds flying into your freshly dug soil - just until you can get to that spot with the spade and then keep them under control by using a hoe.
Fertile soil is always going to give a fab crop of the *, you're right there! I'm not anti weeding - far from it - I got to quite like going round with a hoe, and hand weeding, as it gave me chance to really get to know my plants and spot any problems before they get too big to handle.
Top idea for lining sheds though - definitely going to do that! :D
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I got to quite like going round with a hoe, and hand weeding, as it gave me chance to really get to know my plants and spot any problems before they get too big to handle.
Me too...someone on another thread called me a nutter for this! :shock: :D :lol:
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tale i always folow is nettles mean fantasticly fertile soil for some reason
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the weed seeds can last 7 years in the ground, just keep encouraging them and killing them before they seed you will never win but you can reduce there numbers :twisted:
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also weeds do not like good soil as Shaun says feed the soil
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Once again, bang on Eristic. I moved a folded piece of thick black plastic that had appeared on my plot. It was about a square foot and had 13 slugs on the underside. At a slug every 11 sq inches that indicates I have about 19,636 slugs on my plot. :!:
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Like the post Ertistic.
If you are after an easy-going Tichscmarsh-Groundforce-like life, having an allotment isn't gonna fit the bill. There are no quick fixes, there are always new challenges to be faced, it involves hard work (particularly at the beginning) and there will always be slugs. The reward is in the eating.
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Television has completely corrupted the minds of new gardeners now for two complete generations and while there is good technical knowledge, the practical side has been completely lost. I doubt very much if there is even a single teacher left in horticulture that knows how to dig properly. Digging is an artform previously handed down through the generations. Do it right, it is simle and uses low physical effort. Nowadays, everyone wants to avoid digging because it is percieved as hard work, so instead of getting stuck in to a few weeks digging they expend enormous amounts of time and energy trying to cheat.
In case anyone reading this thinks its easy for us old hands because we've got all the best plots, this is what my plot looked like last March.
(http://www.david-frary.com/images/allotment_2.jpg)
And here is work in progress last week. The overgrown bit at the back is not my plot and is currently written off as unlettable. We shall see.
(http://www.david-frary.com/images/lotty_Feb_07_3.jpg)
This is my idea of a raised bed but I am not advocating that anyone should double-dig like this.
As for the weeds, there has been a lot of grumbles in here about weeding. The difficulties encountered by newcomers with weeds is exacerbated by the poorly cultivated soil. As us old mangel worzel growers used to say, "The answer lies in the soil". I can pull any weed on my plot out by the roots, by hand, and hoeing and cultivating is painless, but when the ground is set like concrete you have no chance.
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at the beginning) and there will always be slugs. The reward is in the eating.
snails on the council housing waiting list :lol:
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:lol: actually thats how i catch the slugs on my allotment .
pieces of old pond liner weighted down with a few stones slugs love the damp plastic just lift peel off slug and there ya go.
mind you i have a small pond on my lotty that attracts birds and other slug eating animals that also help.
if your a once a month allotment person then No carpets wont work but i go to my lotty daily and used in the right way carpet does have its uses
i have to say that actually now my whole plot is worked there is little use for it i now use mulches usualy wood chippings surplied by my local council i must get a digital camera i am proud of my plot carpets and all.
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i actuallylike digging myself as seen here
http://www.chat.allotment-garden.org/viewtopic.php?t=1690&highlight=back
but i use the rotavator as well i double dig every third year ,single when needed ,as you say mate digging is really a dance taking the first spit turning it over on the top then the second lower spit ends up being on the surface. i had to show my sons how to do it .i see on the other plots guys using a fork to dig a winter bed .pointing out it is easier with a good spade usually gets me told to f off n mind my own :lol:
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beautifull pics
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... gardening programmes have given new gardeners unrealistic visions of how to achieve the perfect garden in a weekend, there is absolutely no question that they have played their part in bringing gardening back into the mainstream. It is no longer seen to be the domain of dippy old dears and grumpy old men, or those with the money to pay for a gardener.
I'm all for getting people back into gardening. It makes the world in which we spend our 24/7 a better place!
Personally I'm hoping that the BBC Grow Your Veg is going to have the same effect. I know it isn't useful to most of us here, but it might just encourage younger people to get into growing veg ... I'm probably the youngest allotment holder on my plot, and I'm seen as novelty value by some.