Another green manure question!

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Moonshine132435

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Another green manure question!
« on: September 04, 2012, 13:03 »
I have another green manure question to add to the many similar threads on here, but this one hasn't been specifically asked yet:

I have a large allotment, half of which I'm digging over so I can sow this year and in early spring; the other half I've mainly cover over in weed matting so I can get to digging it over in 2013. The problem is the back half has quite a few encroaching brambles which seem to get over/ under/around/ through just about everything.

My question is:

A) Would rotovating the back half and putting in green manure help keep the weeds down, or would I just be shooting myself in the foot by rotovating all those roots in, and
B) I've dug over a few beds already for planting early next year, is it worth putting some green manure in over the winter, or would it be more sensible just to put the weed matting down on those dug beds until I need them?

thanks
Aquired a full plot on 13th April; exited and a little awed in equal measure.

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Cake Lady

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 14:42 »
I dont think rotavating would be the way to go as I'm sure brambles are more than a little resilient  :nowink:.  Even with the green manure on top, I think they'd come through in their millions.  Someone who knows better may confirm this...

With the other beds then green manure is not a bad idea as most fix nitrogen in the soil for the next crop, help keep weeds at bay and prevent nutrients from being washed away.  I'm trying green manures this year as my soil is not great and the weeds rapidly take over, so i'm not exactly talking from experience  ::)  This is almost the end of my first year on the plot and i've not seen any others on my site use green manures - there may be a good reason i've yet to work out.

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crh75

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 16:39 »
Regarding your already dug plots I would not use green manure because there will be a lot of missed weed roots and millions of seeds waiting to germinate.  They will all sprout up with the green manure and you will find very difficult to weed.  As you are in London I assume you have heavy soil so l would leave the beds bare.  You can rake, hoe or dig out any weeds that germinate or regrow.  As long as you have the time not to leave it too long between rakings.  You will be amazed at how many seeds germinate.  This is known as the stale seed bed method and if dry you can water to encourage the weed seeds to germinate.  The weed matting will only delay the seeds from germinating until you remove it in spring.  In future years when the weeds are more controllable green manure will be an excellent choice.

Regarding the bramble problem, I don’t think rotovating is a good idea.  I would strim them until you get around to digging over that area.

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Potty Plotty Lotty

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 19:42 »
We took our half plot in September 2009 and cleared about half the carpet of docks by end-October. We sowed Hungarian grazing rye on the cleared areas (not nitrogen fixing).

In hindsight I would not have bothered with the green manure because it provided one extra job in spring when we were still trying to clear the remaining part of the plot and do all the other jobs at that time of year.  In the area we dug over, we had missed lots of roots so whisked them out as they emerged again-for us it didn't affect the green manure much but would have been easier without it!

Now that we are relatively on top of the plot and have had several years being tough on weeds, I'm giving green manures another go, but I'm not yet persuaded it's worth the effort for how we use our plot. (I'm reading "Growing Green: Organic Techniques for a Sustainable Future" to try and be persuaded!).

If you're not 100% organic, you could consider using a glyphosate weed killer on the brambles-now is a good time. I've resorted to it especially on the ones growing out from the compost bin! 

It sounds like you're doing a great job, so keep at it. Do it properly now and it will make all the difference long term.

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Moonshine132435

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 09:02 »
Thanks for all your responses; I had a feeling that my search for a short-cut around digging digging digging wouldn't be fruitful.  :(

Most of the brambles are coming over from a completely unkept plot to my North; I've tried spraying the whole thing with RoundUp but the brambles just thumb their nose at it and, in fact, I can see my weedmatting bulging up in places where the brambles are clearly coming through looking for revenge! I was sceptical that a few mustard plants would be able to beat that. I guess I'll just have to prepare the first half of my plot this year, and start digging the other half over next.

I've worked quite hard at taking roots out of my current beds and am leaving them fallow, but I fully expect more stuff to sprout up over the next weeks and hopefully a bit of light weeding will tire the weeds out enough for planting in the spring. I was going to put some winter onion seeds in one of them, but am not at all sure that I'll be able to tell the difference between sprouting onions and the inevitable weeds which will start coming through.

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stompy

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 09:58 »
Glyphosate/roundup are no good for the likes of brambles, you need to use SBK it's a brush wood killer.

SBK "will" kill the brambles after a couple of aplications my dad used it on his overgrown plot that was covered in brambles.
Use it now and they should be gone by next spring  ;)
You will still have to dig the roots out but that will be easier with them being dead, or rotavate them out but that puts alot of strain on the rotavator.

I wouldn't bother with green manure just yet, wait until you've got the plot under control then use it, by useing it now you'll just give the new emerging weeds somewhere to hide.

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Moonshine132435

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Re: Another green manure question!
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 16:05 »
Thanks Stompy, I got some SBK and will try it this weekend.



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