Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Smallhold Farming and Rural Living => Livestock and Growing on a larger scale => Topic started by: John on September 07, 2010, 14:13
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We're taking on a smallholding with 4 acres of grassland in N Wales. It's about 600 feet high and quite windy being just 5 miles from the sea. The neighbouring farmer is running sheep on the land but we fancy putting our own on eventually.
I wondered about keeping a rare breed, perhaps Soay sheep and wondered if anyone has any thoughts on the subject.
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It's a lovely idea to keep a rare breed like soay, but they can be quite difficult. They don't herd like other sheep, quite independent natured, very agile too. You would need to do a bit of research, I'm sure someone on here may know something about them. Will you be living at the smallholding? :)
If so....I'm jealous! :lol:
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Oh yes, we'll be living there. I intend only leaving in a pine box :)
Lots to research for us!
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There's a Soay Sheep Society. Their web site contains a lot of good information.
http://www.soaysheep.org/
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I saw some at a rare breeds show which were the size of small poodles and ate seaweed. They were great.
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I saw some at a rare breeds show which were the size of small poodles and ate seaweed. They were great.
That sounds like the Soay. :) I'm wondering if Blackface or something more hill-like would be good. How about Herdwick?
:)
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My vet warned me that some sheep are 'designed' for poor grazing and get 'bloat?' if they go onto land that's too good. However, we're going to be at 600 feet so not too lush. Not as bad as at 1000 feet though :)
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Whatever variety you get, make sure those fences are hog-tight as we say over here. I've chased more than my share of those stupid wool-heads who spend the day figuring how to get out of the field and when they do they moan about wanting back in and run off when you try to get them back. >:(
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at least being hillside sheep you won't have to dock their tails, they need them to keep their bits warm, however you will have to keep a check for blo fly :(
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B----y sheep they spend their life trying to get out,then die trying to get back in. Good luck Personally i'd keep a couple of nice Welsh Black cattle,better looking,more fun and far tastier,and loads of your neighbour will sell you a sheep for your freezer.
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If they're going to be hillside sheep as Joy says, make sure you go for the breed with legs shorter on one side than the other, so they don't fall over ;)
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If they're going to be hillside sheep as Joy says, make sure you go for the breed with legs shorter on one side than the other, so they don't fall over ;)
thats fine so long as they don't turn around :lol:
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Knew there had to be a snag :lol:
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have to teach them all reverse for when they get to the top of the hill and want to come down again - I have some spare lorry reversing bleepers and mirrors John if you are interested ;) :lol:
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i keep herdwicks and they are lovely sheep, would love the space, although mine escape from padocks really easy, can jump over normal stock fencing.
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the ones round here could get out of Alcatraz with their hooves tied together.
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If they're going to be hillside sheep as Joy says, make sure you go for the breed with legs shorter on one side than the other, so they don't fall over ;)
Now come on Yorkie, that's Haggis you're thinking of! :D ;)
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or bagpipes??? :D :D
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I still think pigs would be a much better choice.
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I still think pigs would be a much better choice.
So do I!
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I still think pigs would be a much better choice.
So do I!
That's only because you watched countryfile with them milking sheep and that chap talking about cleaning up their back ends :tongue2:
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What are you going to do with the fleeces? I understand that it can cost more to shear a sheep than the wool is worth...
Gillie
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I'm sure John would be happy to take up hairdressing ;) :lol:
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What are you going to do with the fleeces? I understand that it can cost more to shear a sheep than the wool is worth...
Gillie
We've a lot to learn .. but maybe Val can take up spinning and knitting again in her spare time after milking, cleaning out the pig sty and making me breakfast
Seriously, I don't know.
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If they're going to be hillside sheep as Joy says, make sure you go for the breed with legs shorter on one side than the other, so they don't fall over ;)
Now come on Yorkie, that's Haggis you're thinking of! :D ;)
Nooooo! this is the northwest. They are hazlet in Lancashire!
my brother worked for a butcher as a saturday job in his teens and they tried so hard to convince him ... :nowink:
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On topic - have you thought about alpacas? They are bred for poorer grazing ... oh but I bet you have got bracken. Scratch that. Goats? Milk, meat and bright with it. Escape artists though.
Or how about some dexter cattle? The small black ones? Less suicidal than sheep and tough little beasts. Or spana could put you right with some highlands - now they would like your land.
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dexters are very tasty too - Grannie and I share one :D
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What a lot of ideas! We're trying to look at animals that won't take up too much time - don't forget we've got a 'day job' as well - so milking goats or cows seems like a bit much for starters.
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Hmmmm, have you thought of the time taken up in the lambing season? Presumably you wouldn't have many anyway, but they do need keeping an eye on for various rots and fly-strike, worming and foot care, and fences need to be checked and mended all the time.
I read somewhere that someone has bred a sheep that doesn't need shearing, and produces decent meat. Sounds interesting. :)
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Also ... this day job idea? :unsure: I assume that is in addition to running the new, enlarged, supadupa Welsh branch of Cara's Sanctuary for Anything Furry, Feathered or Impossibly Cute? ???
:D :D
You could just wait and see what life (or Kate or Cara or ....) lands you with!
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Build the field and they will come...
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It would be a disaster if I had a smallholding, it would be full of useless animals who need a home! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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What worries me is that I woke up this morning with 5 of 6 cats on the bed.. add in some poultry, pigs and a herd of sheep and I'm going to need a pretty big bed!
Lovely as the new place is, we'll have a mortgage to pay off and so can't just rely on the income from the holding, which I think will be tiny for a year or two at least. So not off the treadmill rodent race yet.
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but you will be able to count the sheep to help you get to sleep whilst you are worrying about the new mortgage ;)
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Poultry ... you are talking chickens and clearly you are going to get 'talked' (should that be quacked?) into ducks. They will end up as pets. :nowink:
??? ???
Geese! Graze geese on the paddock. Now there is an income earner!! With all of affluent posh Cheshire on your doorstep, no trouble to turn into mortgage payments. And isnt there a forum member up that way with geese????? :unsure: Michaelmas and Christmas geese, with added burglar alarm potential. Plus eggs for your breakfast. Ching ching! And you cant take a flock of geese to bed with you! ::)
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That's done it! I now have a vision of a HUGE bed with an odd assortment of domestic and farm animals cuddled up with you....................... :lol: :lol: :lol:
And I suppose any wild animal or bird who might need to rest and recuperate............ :D
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I have pedigree suffolk sheep but they take alot of handling if you need to do anything with them as they are so big.
Something like a Zwartable would best suit what you are looking for John.
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Thanks Iain - looked at this page: http://www.zwartbles.org/index.php?page=about-the-breed and realised how ignorant I am when I read "Other breeders, aware of the Zwartbles' reputation for rapid growth rate and a low fat carcase, are successfully using the rams as terminal sires."
Now what is a 'terminal sire'? Surely not a dead one :)
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I read somewhere that someone has bred a sheep that doesn't need shearing, and produces decent meat. Sounds interesting. :)
Was it in Australia - a sheep / roo cross with a woolly jumper? :wacko: :lol:
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John a terminal sire is the name given to a ram or breed of ram that could be used to produce lambs for the meat market.
They are very quiet and would be ideal sheep for you, unless you want to go all the way and get some proper heavy weight suffolks. :D
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Thanks Iain - I'll be reading up and going on a hands-on course before taking them on anyway.
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How about coming to an arrangement with the farmer already using the land for his sheep, at least in the meantime while you get yourself settled in? Rent could be a lamb slaughtered and ready for the freezer at certain intervals throughout the year.
The Zwartbles are attractive looking sheep. I wouldn't mind a few of those myself! Anybody any idea how to pronounce the name? They sound like cartoon characters, perhaps living on a planet next door to the Clangers.
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I saw some huge sheep in Derbyshire last weekend - there were about four of them lolling about in the shelter of a wall so I assumed they were men sheep. They were about twice the size of normal sheep.
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I saw some huge sheep in Derbyshire last weekend - there were about four of them lolling about in the shelter of a wall so I assumed they were men sheep. They were about twice the size of normal sheep.
That sounds like men sheep. Kept in small groups and much bigger than normal sheep. :) Those boys will be getting ready to go to work soon... possibly are already in some parts of the country. :)
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My vet warned me that some sheep are 'designed' for poor grazing and get 'bloat?' if they go onto land that's too good. However, we're going to be at 600 feet so not too lush. Not as bad as at 1000 feet though :)
When I read your original post I knew, in the back of my memory, that there is a reason why most of the Welsh hill farmers go for the same breed.
I've read in the past how sheep from Wales don't do too well on the lusher pasture on lower altitude fields in England.
I wonder if the reverse is true? Sheep bred in England not fairing too well on the poorer grazing in Wales?
I can't say I know much about sheep, apart from they are expensive wrapped up in the shop.....
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We watched Countryfile tonight, and the man who lives on Ramsey Island said you need something hardy when you live in Wales. Because of the harsh winters. He rears Welsh Mountain Sheep!
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Hi
Here's some rare breed sheep for sale, Portland Sheep.
http://www.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-adverts.showadvert/index-1032991888/b2a15610.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_%28sheep%29
http://www.portlandsheep.org.uk/
Not a sheep keeper, just branched into reptiles. ???
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Not a sheep keeper, just branched into reptiles. ???
Err, we're talking N Wales - not Jurassic park :)
Besides, I'm pretty sure sheep are easier than velociraptors!
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Will you need a dog or will the cats just branch out a bit?
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Squeak will hiss them into place - just like he does me!
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Perhaps a sheepcat (http://www.bodeganet.com/BodegaPastures/index.html) is called for?
:)
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I have got a Zwartable coming next week so I will be able to give you more info soon John.
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My aunt keeps Shetland sheep in north Wales.
They are a small breed and very independent so not a huge amount of day to day work. She kept them as they have fantastic fleeces and she is a spinner. The boys go in the freezer and are very tasty and she sent off their skins to be tanned which were absolutely wonderful.
Before she lived there my Grandad kept Jacobs on the same land but they were more pets and lawnmowers.
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You'll have to introduce us to your Auntie when you come over. :)
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I got the Zwartable and the first thing he did was escape :D
I thought here we go but I saw him in the field next door and shouted over to him.
He just trotted back to the fence and jumped through the hole. Ideal sheep if you ask me.
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Do they sit, beg and roll over? :D
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Not yet but I will see what can be done :D
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HEBRIDEAN!!!! You wont be disappointed. I can give you loads of info. I wish I had more land to keep more(I run 30) I had nearly 200 last year(inc lambs) but found it stressfull goiung to work as well so decided to limit my self sensibly to 30. Get Hebs You will love them!!!
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If you are living 600 feet up in North Wales then welsh mountaine sheep are your best bet.They are very thrifty sheep that won't need any suplimentary feeding in winter .If you mate them with a welsh mountain ram they will lamb easily which is something you have to seriously think about if you have no experiance of lambing,they also have a great mothering instinct.
If you don't want the hassle of shearing you could consider easycare sheep.They have no fleece just corse hair and so blow fly strike is something that you won't have to worry about.
I was a bit sceptical about the name easycare but my nephew has 50 of them and they realy are.They lamb as easily as some other sheep fart :tongue2:.But they are a bit more expensive than welsh mountain.I have experiance of soay sheep and a lot of running about is what I recall because they don't flock as stated in an earlier post.
If you like something a bit more fancy then the standard welsh mountain you can have the black welsh mountain,improved welsh mountain,south wales type and badger faced which is very popular with smallholders.
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Wow! What a choice. The local farmer's collected his sheep now - it's incredible how that dog worked. I asked if he needed any help and he said 'No thanks, the dog will get them' - he just stood and whistled / shouted and the dog had them rounded up and in the trailer. I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd shut the door and driven the land rover at this point :)
Today I think we need heavy sheep - the lighter ones are being blown off in the wind!
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Wow! What a choice. The local farmer's collected his sheep now - it's incredible how that dog worked. I asked if he needed any help and he said 'No thanks, the dog will get them' - he just stood and whistled / shouted and the dog had them rounded up and in the trailer. I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd shut the door and driven the land rover at this point :)
Today I think we need heavy sheep - the lighter ones are being blown off in the wind!
Woolly jumpers? ::)
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I just realised that I know where Clogwyn Melyn is.Its about 4 miles away from me.Forget about the sheep for know and get yourself aquainted with the 'the goat' pub at bryncir.
You could even buy a goat and then all you'd have to do of an evening is tell her indoors that you'r going to ckeck on the 'goat' and then disapear down the pub.
You may also like to point out to her that a lot of farmers drink at the goat so a lot of information could be got so you would actually be 'working'.
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I just realised that I know where Clogwyn Melyn is.Its about 4 miles away from me.Forget about the sheep for know and get yourself aquainted with the 'the goat' pub at bryncir.
You could even buy a goat and then all you'd have to do of an evening is tell her indoors that you'r going to ckeck on the 'goat' and then disapear down the pub.
You may also like to point out to her that a lot of farmers drink at the goat so a lot of information could be got so you would actually be 'working'.
Hello neighbour! :) I've seen the goat..
We're just up from the BT phone box
Map Link (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Caernarfon,+Gwynedd+LL54+6PT,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.060931,-4.261547&spn=0.000978,0.002135&t=h&z=19)
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I just realised that I know where Clogwyn Melyn is.Its about 4 miles away from me.Forget about the sheep for know and get yourself aquainted with the 'the goat' pub at bryncir.
You could even buy a goat and then all you'd have to do of an evening is tell her indoors that you'r going to ckeck on the 'goat' and then disapear down the pub.You may also like to point out to her that a lot of farmers drink at the goat so a lot of information could be got so you would actually be 'working'.
this wouldn't work for John as Val is on here all the time and will have read this post!! besides I bet Val would already be in the goat before John got there :lol:
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this wouldn't work for John as Val is on here all the time and will have read this post!! besides I bet Val would already be in the goat before John got there :lol:
Leaving him with the tab to pay for her port & lemons??? :D
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Leaving him with the tab to pay for her port & lemons??? :D
But Val drinks cider! Well, to be accurate, Val drinks anything but prefers cider :)
(Awaits writ from lawyer)
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And here you thought rainy weather would have you knee deep in it :D
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Leaving him with the tab to pay for her port & lemons??? :D
But Val drinks cider! Well, to be accurate, Val drinks anything but prefers cider :)
(Awaits writ from lawyer)
Oh don't get divorced now John, you've only just bought the place of your dreams!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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John, I would look for a rare breed, with both good meat and wool. Finn Sheep are actually great for that, they taste fantastic and the wool is good for spinning.
If you take good care of the pasture and the sheep do not end up with too many burrs and grass or hay in the fleece, a lot of handspinners will happily take it off your hand, if it is good quality.
To look at fleeces and how you can sell them, have a look on
www.etsy.com
search under all items for "raw fleece" and you will have an idea as to prices and demand from handspinners for specific breeds.
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Thanks Bettina - a very helpful post.
Apart from sheep, there's a lot of other projects we want to get going and we've decided we're going to be careful lest we jump into everything at once and end up with an unholy mess.
I don't mind a mess in the veg plot but I do take livestock very seriously - it's plain wrong not to look after them properly.
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I agree that looking after livestock is very important and that research is required.
With sheep however, it is nice to know that there are three things you can get from them. Milk, wool and meat.
Also, even if you cannot find a finn ram for finn sheep girls, even 50% finn tastes fantastic and for lambs that eventually go on to slaughter, and in the freezer, any other good meat ram will do.
However, when you do buy finn sheep, make sure that you buy from someone who has bred them for both meat quality and fleece. Also, finn are very prolific, that is twins and triplets are the norm with them, so you may also need less sheep for the amount of lambs you would like to have per year.
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What about Black Welsh Mountain or Welsh Mountain sheep?? Jacobs are also a nice ahrdy breed. I saw some at market whcih had filled out well and were stocky things. Or Hebrideans? A Hebridean ram can have up to six horns, what a sight!! We are thinking of getting a couple of Hebrideans as they are quite a sight for the public.
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We keep Badger Face torwen. They are a type of welsh mountain. we've just finished lambing and our 3 ewes have all had pairs [twins] one tuplamb and one ewe lamb each.
We used to farm "properly" for a living and several hundred sheep. the Badger Face is new to us and we are finding them to be excellent mothers,easy to keep and they do their lambs well in addition to being attractive to look at. Cant ask for more than that!
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i feel really proud of u. but such breed can withstand for your land,though u can go for some research...
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Having grown up on a farm which kept sheep you should consider amongst other things any tendency in the breed for problems. eg Derbyshire Gritstone are reckoned to have poor mouths and susceptible to losing teeth earlier than other breeds.
Other factors are the height of your land and the availability for shelter. For instance if you were to go for a lowland breed like Bluefaced Leicester you'd have to accept they would need to be indoors in winter in order to withstand the cold.
Of course you may wish to consider whether you want to produce a marketable carcass or just keep the breed for show. Breeds like the Cheviot, Texel or Suffolk are top rated meat breeds.
The joy of keeping any livestock is the choice of breeds so enjoy it.
Given you are in North Wales I would personally suggest a breed such as the Black Welsh Mountain. Aesthetically pleasing, easy lambing and hardy ::)
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We've got the land rented out this year so we're enjoying watching the farmer's sheep. Today I discovered catching a lamb that somehow got out of the front field isn't so easy. Ended up in a gentle rugby tackle! So carried the lamb back to the field and the flock stood there bahing at me. They sounded very cross!
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wish Val had videoed that :lol: :lol:
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Oh Val's the sheep whisperer - they all trot over to her when she's around. One rattle of the peg bag and they go mad thinking she's got sheep nuts.
Me on the other hand, dark suspicions and let's take the lambs to another field..
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There is a rare breed/native breed auction at Bryncir market on 1 October .Sheep,cattle,pigs,poultry etc .Catalogue isn't online yet but it should be soon.