Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Eating and Drinking => Cooking, Storing and Preserving => Topic started by: shokkyy on November 23, 2012, 16:19
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I normally use plain old supermarket bread flour. I have tried some of the premium brands, like Doves and Allisons, but didn't really feel they gave a noticable improvement. But the other week I spotted some Wessex Mills French bread flour in my local greengrocers so bought some to try. I was really impressed with it. The texture of the dough was much nicer and it tasted delicious. I'd quite like to carry on using French bread flour in future, but the flour I bought was a lot more expensive than my normal stuff, at £1.99 for 1.5kg as opposed to 77p. I really couldn't say whether the big improvement was typical of French bread flour or specific to the Wessex Mills brand, but does anybody know where I could buy French flour that wasn't quite so expensive?
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This info is interesting and suggests that lower gluten levels in plain flour rather than strong flour make better French bread but take longer to rise.
http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/recipes/French_Bread.htm
http://www.melburyandappleton.co.uk/wessex-mill-french-bread-flour---15kg-615-p.asp
it might be worth a try :unsure:
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Is there a local bakers or mill that might sell you some French flour e.g.
Shipton Mill Ltd
Long Newnton, Tetbury, Gloucestershire GL8 8RP
01666 505050 · shipton-mill.com
I don't know how far this is from you,but they sell flour from their mill .
They do a 25 kg bag for 21.50
Cheers Carl
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French flour is also ground differently from other countries though I'm not sure exactly what they do different. An artisan bakery I used to buy from imported French flour to get the right result and they sold out quickly every day because the taste difference was obvious despite the higher price of the goods.
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The French "T55" bread flour can be roughly approximated with a mix of strong and plain flour plus a little wheatgerm. Definitely no fibre though!
from here
http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?t=29256&start=0
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You've made me start toying with the idea of buying a big sack now. Shipton Mill does sell French flour in 25kg sacks, and so does Wessex Mill, though the latter is quite a lot more expensive than the former. I get through 2 to 3kg of flour per week, but I'm just not sure about storing a big sack. I do have a small barn that's weather proof and I use that to store most things that come in sacks, but I'm not entirely sure it would be dry enough to store a sack of flour.
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MOS - I've just read through those links you posted, and that is interesting. I can understand how you could duplicate the structure of French flour by combining strong and plain flour (and the baguette recipe on the Dove's website uses that same method), but I wouldn't have thought it could duplicate the difference in taste I found with the French flour. I'd really like to know if that difference was specific to Wessex Mills or whether the same would be true of Shipton Mills French flour, before splashing out on a big sack.
I'd love to try that method the recipes recommend of making the crust crustier by using water in the oven to create steam, but I daren't because the handbook for my oven says you shouldn't use steam to clean the oven or it would invalidate the warranty.
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Yes I know what you mean as my oven book says the same thing, although I did try it yesterday and just put the water into the oven's roasting tray on the shelf under the bread and it was fine, no power trips or anything
I can buy all sorts of different flours from a bakery near me, in small quantities. He has all sorts of specialist flours and he sells on the internet. He's called The Flour Bin and is based in Wingerworth :) He sells little packets of seeds too which is ok for home bakers like us
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You've made me start toying with the idea of buying a big sack now. Shipton Mill does sell French flour in 25kg sacks, and so does Wessex Mill, though the latter is quite a lot more expensive than the former. I get through 2 to 3kg of flour per week, but I'm just not sure about storing a big sack. I do have a small barn that's weather proof and I use that to store most things that come in sacks, but I'm not entirely sure it would be dry enough to store a sack of flour.
The problem with buying flour in bulk is the little flour weevils. I hadn't used any SR flour for ages, and when I got it out of it's tupperware box the other week, the little weevils were everywhere! I chucked the flour, washed out the tupperware and the cupboard, but a few days later I could still see some. So after another wash out and a GOOGLE, it said that the weevils don't like bay leaves and to put some in with the flour and in the cupboards, so I've got bay leaves everywhere now where I keep flour!
The other thing is, it may not be dry enough for the flour unless you have something big to put the flour sack in to keep it drier!
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I thought you couldn't get weevils in Tupperware :ohmy: I shall have to have a look at some of my flours. I know I have a bag of besan I've not used for quite a while. Eek
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I used to have problems with weevils in flour before I had my kitchen refitted, but since it's been refitted there's been no sign of them. The refit seems to have got rid of all my old mouse problems as well. I guess it must be something to do with being more streamlined with no holes anywhere for things to get in, or maybe just less bacteria/fungi/whatever because it's nice and new. I could certainly chuck some bay leaves around it in the barn.
I could put the flour sack inside a dustbin with a clip-down lid - does flour need to be able to breathe? With most things that mustn't get damp they solve the problem by mixing in a little rice to absorb any moisture, but I think it would be hard to do that effectively unless you did it when the sack was actually filled.
Compostqueen - I googled your local bakery and they do sell online, with a fabulous selection of flours, but sadly their prices are way higher than either of the other suppliers I found.
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Oh dear. It must be the smaller quantities and postage I expect. I wouldn't buy a sack of flour. I'd rather have smaller bags of different sorts than one great bag of the same thing. Fresh flour makes for better results. You will see that if you open a bag of fresh flour to make a sponge. Not an exact comparison with bread baking but you get my drift :)
I was watching Saturday Kitchen this morning and inspired by that I am making a cider bread this afternoon. They even make bread with the juice from the beetroot. That sounds just the thing I could do as I seem to have ended up with the world's most productive plot of beetroot this year. The beet has even trounced the courgette crop :D
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I use a fan oven and stick a tray of water in, I actually put the tray in while I am proving the bread (which I do with the oven turned to its very lowest setting )the light just comes on and goes out very quickly - so its just warmer than the room). basically while its proving I put some boiling water in the tray under the bread, prove for 30 - 40 minutes, then just whack the heat up to 180 and 35 minutes and my loaf is ready.
(wholemeal loaf not french, though I do have a baguette tray for cooking baguettes)
Grendel
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I thought you couldn't get weevils in Tupperware :ohmy: I shall have to have a look at some of my flours. I know I have a bag of besan I've not used for quite a while. Eek
Well I don't want to put anyone off, but during my googling time, some sites say the weevils, bits of dead weevil and eggs can already be in the flour when its bagged up! :ohmy: :ohmy:
Like you CQ, I thought my tupperware would keep any nasties out! So now, every time I buy a bag of flour, or get one out of the cupboard, I put my 4x magnifying glasses on and scrutinise the bag inside and out first! :mad:
Oh, just read that apart from not liking bayleaves, these little critters don't like the smell of sulphur, so you can put a box of matches in the cupboard with your flour, also wikihow, says to put your bag of flour inside a plastic bag, then freeze it for 96 hours, that will kill anything in the flour! :ohmy: and wiping shelves down with eucalyptus oil helps too! ;)
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Ta for the tip GA. I shall get on the case!
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:lol: :lol:
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I emailed Shipton Mills and asked how long a sack would stay good and how to store, and this is the replay they sent, for anyone else who's interested.
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the shelf life of flour. The short answer is yes - at a rate of 2-3 kilos a week, you will easily get through a sack of flour before its best before date. Wholemeal flour has a shelf life from milling of 6 months because of the high "oil" content in the wheat germ. Beyond six months it will start to deteriorate and eventually go rancid in the same way that nuts do. White flour will be good for 12 months as the oils are taken out with the bran during the milling process which is what gives it the whiter colour. We only mill in small quantities at a time and have a high turnover rate so you will have plenty of time left on the expiry dates when the flour reaches you.
Both can be kept for longer providing you keep them somewhere cool (such as a barn in winter!), and they can even be kept in the freezer which will have no effect on the performance or flavour properties.
Just remember though, if you’re using the flour to make bread, make sure you bring it back up to room temperature or warmer before you start to mix your dough as bread likes everything nice and warm in order to get the fermentation process going. On the other hand if you’re using it for pastry, you can use it straight from the barn or the freezer because pastry is the opposite and likes everything well chilled.
As for storage conditions, we would advise against tightly sealed containers as they prevent the flour from breathing and can cause the flour to “sweat” which will reduce its life and quality. Best thing to do (unless freezing) is to leave it in the sack it comes in and place inside a large crock, clean metal dustbin or a plastic bin with a very loose lid or one with holes in. Just ensure the holes are small enough (or covered with a mesh) to prevent insect or rodent infestation if you're keeping it in the barn.
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Is there a local bakers or mill that might sell you some French flour e.g.
Shipton Mill Ltd
Long Newnton, Tetbury, Gloucestershire GL8 8RP
01666 505050 · shipton-mill.com
I don't know how far this is from you,but they sell flour from their mill .
They do a 25 kg bag for 21.50
Cheers Carl
Thanks for pointing this supplier out to me. I ordered the 25kg sack of French flour, it arrived inside 24hrs and is lovely flour. As long as I don't have any storage problems with it, I'll be using them again. They've got a nice selection of flours and I'd like to try some more of them.
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I thought you couldn't get weevils in Tupperware :ohmy: I shall have to have a look at some of my flours. I know I have a bag of besan I've not used for quite a while. Eek
Well I don't want to put anyone off, but during my googling time, some sites say the weevils, bits of dead weevil and eggs can already be in the flour when its bagged up! :ohmy: :ohmy:
Like you CQ, I thought my tupperware would keep any nasties out! So now, every time I buy a bag of flour, or get one out of the cupboard, I put my 4x magnifying glasses on and scrutinise the bag inside and out first! :mad:
Oh, just read that apart from not liking bayleaves, these little critters don't like the smell of sulphur, so you can put a box of matches in the cupboard with your flour, also wikihow, says to put your bag of flour inside a plastic bag, then freeze it for 96 hours, that will kill anything in the flour! :ohmy: and wiping shelves down with eucalyptus oil helps too! ;)
Just reading this thread, I remembered exactly the same and have heard about freezing too (and sifting).
In my husbands previous house (which was only 5 years old) I once opened a sealed box of lasagne sheets which had been bought from the big T the week before and they were full of holes and creepy crawlies - I was horrified and promptly threw the lot out into the wheelie bin and cleaned everything - thankfully they hadn't got any further! It was bolognaise instead that night!
I have also tried the french flour with good results and have been recommended Canadian flour (thought Trillium might be interested to hear this). I am still searching for it locally here.
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They do have Canadian flour at Shiptons, both white and wholemeal, as well as a couple of bread flours that are a blend of Canadian and English. They have a huge selection of different types of flour for all applications. They also have a very nice selection of recipes to try.
But if you want Canadian from a local shop - I've seen Canadian bread flour in my local Sainsburys.
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But if you want Canadian from a local shop - I've seen Canadian bread flour in my local Sainsburys.
No chance down here - our supermarkets are hopeless - approximately ten years behind the rest of the UK >:(