[sion01]

I managed to get ahead with the winter digging before the wet weather set in but i'm in a bit of a dilema what to do now.
Some say leave it for the frost to break it down and kill the little beasties while some say cover it with plactic/cardboard/old carpet etc etc to keep the soil dry and warm.I can make a case for both.Has anybody got any prefrance.I'm concerned that covering the soil will just shelter slugs and snails.Any input most welcome

[Nige2Plots]

I prefere to mulch with Horse Manure.

[Nikkithefoot]

I'm digging, laying a thick mulch of manure and covering with heavy duty membrane (only because a plot neighbour was getting rid of it). The worms will take the manure down, any weeds will germinate under the membrane and die off as there is no light, and come spring the soil will be warmer for a slight head start. (Will still have to be careful of frosts though)

[Fisherman]

I prefer to dig the plot over, apply manure to areas where nitrogen loving plants are to go and then leave it exposed to the weather over winter. About a month before sowing / planting I then cover with polythene to dry out and warm up the soil.

If it continues to rain as per today it might need about 6 months to dry out

[daisy1990]

wouldn't use carpet again personally since the council rat catcher told me how many times he catches rats nesting under carpet on veg plots! (perfect microclimate for them apparantly!)

[mumofstig]

I'd only cover with sheeting/cardboard if you have sandy soil, to stop any nutrients being washed away by winter rains.
Otherwise you are better to let the weather break up the soil

[Yorkie]

wouldn't use carpet again personally since the council rat catcher told me how many times he catches rats nesting under carpet on veg plots! (perfect microclimate for them apparantly!)

And release toxins into the soil and/or couch grass grows through it.

Agree with MoS's post 

[Trikidiki]

And release toxins into the soil ................................

I often see comments like this about using old carpets.

Does anyone have a pointer to the research or whatever that backs this up. I'm not dismissing it but am keepng an open mind without any knowledge.

Does this apply to all carpets or just foam backed carpets, would a good quality wool carpet with hesian backing be ok. I have designs on a nice Axminster.

Do I need to worry about the 'toxins' when the carpet is on my floor at home.

Most 'plastic' will release chemicals over time but no-one seems to worry putting polythene type products or enviromesh etc over their crops.

If its the glues or dyes, surely most cardboard is full of glue and covered in print, is this ok.

[zazen999]

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/todo_now/faqs.php?id=111

You aren't growing veg in carpets at home [hopefully], so I'd not worry.

Cardboard and newspaper have used vegetable dyes mainly for a while now, so again not to worry.

With regards your plan; I swear by a good cardboard mulch if trying to keep the weeds down - you can pop a layer of soil over the top if you don't like the look of it - and plant through it in the spring. When you come to harvest the crop, and pull the roots out, the soil is lovely and friable and the cardboard rots down nicely. It's a really good method for when you are starting out your plot.

[peapod]

There was a once a lot of chemicals that could have been released into the soil from old carpet.  Now, depending on how new the carpet is, Im sure that those have been reduced and therefore there is less of a harmful risk. However, Id still be reluctant unless I could pinpoint exactly what chemicals have been used in that carpet.

Another problem with carpet is that weeds could grow through them - effectively making a mat of weeds that is very hard to remove.

I use deciduous rotting leaves to cover the soil - worked very well for two years, cardboard is great too.

[savbo]

I met a very nice person a few weeks ago who had worked for a recycling organisation which had found old wool carpets could be used as a good growing medium...

[Yorkie]

I'm afraid I can't easily put my hands on any research.  My information came from someone who I trusted to know their stuff.  They commented that we had no way of knowing what chemicals had been used in the manufacture of the dyes, glues, bindings, backings etc - and then (assuming it's an old carpet) what's been trodden etc into or onto it over the years.

I would definitely avoid foam backed carpets as the foam will come away from the carpet, leaving more stuff in your plot.  Our council specifically bans the use of any synthetic carpets because of the different residues they can leave in the soil.

However, my main objection to them is that they are an absolute nightmare to lift and dispose of once the tenant has either abandoned the plot or decided they no longer need to use them.  There is at least one post on here from someone who seriously injured their back trying to crowbar carpet up after grass had grown through it.  Have you tried to lift a wet, muddy, weedy, piece of carpet before putting it in the car and taking it to the tip?  You may not get offered a landfill skip to put it in.

NB. No reason to worry about toxins at home.  It's the breakdown of the carpet elements in the wet and cold which produce the issues.

[Trikidiki]

Thanks for the replies.

Playing devil's advocate:

It still sounds like Chnese Whispers with no substance.

Agree completely with the mechanics of foam bits on the plot, weeds growing through and a bigger (sp) to get rid of when finished with.

Re. the Garden Organic article and moth repellants, guess that would sort the Cabbage White's as well.

.........what's been trodden etc into or onto it over the years...........

Best allotment soil I expect.

Wool carpets:  Old gardening books encouraged the use of shoddy (wool waste) in compost heaps.

Toxins coming out in the cold. I'd guess more likely in the warm.

Using deciduous leaves: many local councils land fill leaves collected from roadsides as opposed to composting them as they believe they will contain toxins from exhaust fumes.

Vegetable dyes used in newspapers, I agree. In cardboard, for food use, maybe. For general industrial use, wouldn't like to guarantee it.

I'd also guess most man-made carpets are made of polypropylene, the same stuff as horticultural fleece (Oh dear!).

[peapod]

If I was overly worried about exhaust fumes, I'd have to leave my plot and move to the middle of nowhere (I wish  ), though to be fair to my council, the ones they leave on our site are from the local parkland that is absolutely huge - encompassing many football fields, woodland area, golf course etc etc.

It may seem like being overcautious, but Ive heard much more about the negative effects of carpet leeching harmful chemicals than I've heard good things about using carpet - hence a lot of sites banning the use (as well as the pain in removing them).

Wool may be fine - but old gardening books also recommend the use of chemicals that are now banned for good reason (and some that arent I agree), and what has been walked into those carpets over the years? Possibly those exhaust fume chemicals, cleaning chemicals etc that can all leech into your soil and the water table around your plot.

No-one saying you SHOULD NOT use those carpets - its your plot and your choice, but I wouldn't eat food laying for months under my carpet at home either.

[Yorkie]

Like the idea of moth repellant dealing with the cabbage whites though