Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: Neelam on October 07, 2013, 09:38
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Hi to everyone, I'm a Newbie here in this forum and not yet owner of own chickens, which is mainly my reason to register for this forum - better to read and learn as much as possible BEFORE getting chicken and than realize things are maybe not happening the way I've expected them to happen.
However, after reading a lot about different breeds, different coops, how to set up everything and so on it seems there is one thing mentioned extremely often to the chickens: pests, disease, medication, short life ???
Reading all that in my mind I already have the closet only for chicken medication packed up to its top and keeping a vet as hostage, sleeping next to their coop with the gun underneath my head to get rid of any nightly thieves.
I'm thinking of a very small flock, maybe only 2 or 3 chicken to start out with (thinking of Sussex or Rhode Island). First of all, though my husband had a chicken farm in Pakistan at one stage in his life he still doesn't have the experience as he had people working for him there. Then, I do not have any experience plus we do have rabbits and as they are free run in the backyard with only kennels and the small shed as shelter I guess I have to restrict the chicken into a coop with run or the rabbits will chew up whatever the chicken are supposed to eat and even go inside the chicken coop, too... (and, after reading that chicken do not refuse some meat, I am not sure if they could not harm the baby rabbits with their beak.)
All these things needs to be considered very well before getting started. A chicken is an animal that has to be treated the same caring way as I treat our rabbits as it will be a pet with the option of some eggs and even if I would keep them for meat, too, I don't see any difference in the way they should live their life, whatever length of time this will be.
For all that I would really appreciate if I could get some advice, some further experiences of poultry keepers and maybe there is someone among you from around Bolton area who could show me how his / her set up is and how to start out the best way?
Thanks to everyone for help!
Neelam
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This is a post I could have written - well except for the bit about the husband - 6 months ago. I bought so many books, read so many articles watched so many YouTube videos, read this forum back to front.
At the end of the day you're doing the right thing and are thinking first, getting animals second.
For me it took my wife buying me (yet another) book on chickens to convince me I should just go ahead, so many other people did it why can't I?
Even then since I got them I have been constantly concerned about them. Took me weeks before I'd let them out of their run to free range, then it took ages to let them out onto grass. This weekend I was panicking because I was convinced they had got impacted crops because their crops were so full. In the end I just got rewarded with three massive piles of poo to clean up. Today is the first day I have gone to work and left them free ranging with no-one in the house.
You know what, they've been fine. They tried digging under the fence (looking for worms no doubt) and they were fine. They jumped/flew over the fence into my vegetable plot and stuffed themselves with Rhubard leaves and they've been fine. They escaped into the main lawn area (my fault the temporary fence collapsed) and helped themselves to my herb garden and they've been fine. They've stuffed themselves with apples, caused the log pile to collapse by climbing on it, they started eating the plastic wrapping off some fascia boards, they've dug up bulbs I just planted, they've been so busy playing they've forgotten to go to bed and been locked out by the automatic door and they're still fine. I've panicked that they've had worms after feeding them red pepper, I've panicked that they had scale mite because I didn't know what their feet should look like, I've panicked about them escaping and panicked about predators overcoming my defences.
But you know what after all this, the more mischief they get up to the happier they seem to be.
Do I worry about them? Of course, this is why I've taken so long to let them free range without me being around. Would I do things differently knowing what I know now? Of course, but I wouldn't know that unless I did it.
Yes there are a lot of things that can go wrong, but I would say start off with a secure, simple set up and get to know your birds, if and when something goes wrong from what you've said you already know how to deal with it, and for those situations where you don't there is always this forum and a friendly vet.
What i remind myself is that people have kept chickens for thousands of years without an internet to help them. You want the best for your birds and if my three are anything to go by they'll love you for it and you'll love them.
To answer your question hard for me to give advice except to take the plunge. Oh and if you can let them free range do - but that depends on your local fox population - while free ranging definitely makes them happy you need to know they are safe. (Oh and wherever you let them free range expect them to slowly destroy it - which is fine as long as you expect it). Just make sure your husband is happy with hardly seeing you because you're out with your girls! My wife has started calling them the mistress!
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Welcome to the site Neelam. :D
You are doing the right thing researching as much as you can. If you are going to keep your hens in their own enclosure it is best to give them as much space as possible. This will keep them from being bored, make cleaning easier and stop potential problems of overcrowding would bring (bullying, diseases etc.)
Rufty is also right that you learn a lot once you get your hens but it is best to be prepared. If you do have things like rhubarb you need to try and keep your hens away from it as it can be poisonous to them, the same with bulbs. Some people say that they know not to eat what is bad for them but mine will eat ivy given the chance, especially the very young leaves. ::)
I'm sure you will get plenty of advice so don't worry about asking about anything you are unsure of. There is no such thing as a silly question on here, more it is silly not to ask and then have a problem. ;)
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Well, first of all thanks to both of you! It really was encouraging to read both your answers and good to know it's the right way to go. Well, in a way I always did, first the research and reading, then the pet (and poor mum and dad suffered a lot of furry and feathery friends around me... :closedeyes:)
Nowadays it's my husband who is astonished at my effort to bring our sad backyard to new life.
As we live in a rented property, and so far I consider it just a gossip that British people have the famous English lawn everywhere (I'm a German British Resident for 2 years now), I started taking out those heavy concrete pavers as I needed some place for my rabbits fertile compost which indeed causes another unseen pet, the red worms. Though I never would want them ending up at a fish hook they are not only brilliant composting pets but chicken food, too.
However, I don't bother getting rid of more of those concret pavers within a run or just set up the coop and run around my "dunghill" and our landlord doesn't bother either, so no problems to be expected from that side.
I'm a bit more concerned about the neighbors next door as our landlord never bothered fixing the fence panels which were broken in stormy nights and so finally I ended up fixing them out of the "rubbish" of the broken ones but still not as high as they used to be. So in a free range means I have to clip their wings as they should be able to flap just to get the neighbors weed. Is this a difficult thing to do?
I am somehow really keen on starting out, cannot even explain why. Even in my night dreams it happens that I'm discussing "chicken topics" with people or having them already... It just stroke me one day, that "brilliant idea" of having my very own "smallholding" in the backyard and having kind of a big "family" with me as neither one of us has family in UK.
And than about the coop as it has to be a wooden one for the beginning, though in the long run I most certainly will get one of these "fancy" plastic ones for a better hygiene but too expensive to start out with. As they usually come already treated should I consider that enough for the first year or should the wood be treated again before bringing it to life?
And finally for now, please forgive any spelling or grammar mistakes... for English isn't my mother tongue :nowink:
Thanks to everyone!
Neelam
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I don't bother getting rid of more of those concret pavers within a run
I've been told during the winter if your run is on concrete/paving slabs you will want plenty of straw down for them so they don't freeze their feet. I'm currently experimenting with a mixture of bedding straw and shredded paper as a cheaper alternative, although on wet days they end up with the paper stuck to their feet! This experiment may not last for long. At the moment their run is on a bit that used to be lawn, and is now bare earth so I feel they need something to rummage in. I take it from what you said that you are planning to have them on earth exposed from underneath what used to be paving slabs?
I'm a bit more concerned about the neighbors next door as our landlord never bothered fixing the fence panels ... So in a free range means I have to clip their wings as they should be able to flap just to get the neighbors weed. Is this a difficult thing to do?
I don't clip the wings of ours. I had read about this too and decided that if it became a big problem I'd consider it then. If I may be so bold: if the problem is that your fences fall down I'm not convinced clipped wings will stop your girls from exploring. Mine can, if they are feeling determined/hungry squeeze through some surprisingly small gaps (picket fence gaps are less than 3 inch and the most cheeky one can squeeze through that!). I've found that netting works very well for containing them as it is cheap and isn't affected by wind. (one of the cheap fabric shops in Burnley sells very cheap netting if they have it in stock, re-purposed from protecting my strawberries ;-))
And than about the coop as it has to be a wooden one for the beginning
I love our wooden one. I too would like to get a plastic one although in my case I'd like it as a backup/travel one. There are several situations where I am planning ahead for where I may have to separate some of the chicken from the others so a second coop would be good. However the small plastic ones don't have perches and you can't fit door openers to them, so for me they will always be backup. However I've heard nothing but good things from them from those that have them.
As they usually come already treated should I consider that enough for the first year or should the wood be treated again before bringing it to life?
I was told by who we bought ours from that although they do treat them it's not enough to last the winter and so will need a coat.
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Yes, you got me perfectly right... I will have the chicken then on earth exposed from those paving slabs ::)
Underneath already there is a lot of small grit that might suit them in size.
Well, the fence hopefully won't fall down any further and the only predator I finally got rid of by putting cactus spikes on its top (one cheeky neighbor cat that is not scared of the killer rabbits as all the other cats have been).
Good to know that the coop will need to be painted first. How long should it dry and ventilate before putting chicken in? I've no experience with those wood treatments so far but remember they tend to have a strong smell for a long time.
Thanks so much for all your answers!
Neelam
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Best to use a bat friendly treatment for the coop, let it dry well and air.
Chooks would definitely eat a small baby rabbit - if you've ever seen them with a mouse or a frog .... :ohmy:
Rufty you will have problems with shredded paper - it will blow around in wind and when wet will form a soggy goo. If it attaches to hens feet and dries on it may need to be picked off. Many folk on here use chipped wood on hard areas but do not use bark as it can carry nasties that cause respiratory problems.
If you do consider wing clipping remember you only do one side and it is easy to do. Google it for a diagram. Do remember that the feathers grow back when they moult and so you may need to repeat it. I have found I only need to do it once in their first year, after that they become heavier and more content with the area they have been allocated - you sometimes get the odd one though :nowink:
Do start with 3 rather than 2, then if something did happen to one of them you have not got a chook left on her own.
You originally wrote with concerns about illnesses, medications etc. It is worth being prepared and you do right to research all you can. However, most hens live a healthy life, it's just that on a forum like this you will always see the down side to hens as this is where folks come with their problems. As for your command of English :D It is great, remember we English, on the whole, just expect everyone else to speak our language ::) Enjoy your chooks :)
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If you are considering netting you need to be careful your hens will not be able to get tangled up in it. I have used scaffold netting to make a temporary enclosure which works really well. ;)
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Hi Neelam,
Good for you. After a bit you'll wonder how you could live without the bossy, badly behaved, devious, ever-hungry, worrying, crazy creatures.
Lots of advice above, but I hope you don't mind a few comments.
Better raise the fence/put up a net against the fence rather than rely on wing clipping. Don't put a net over the top; you'll end up with trapped wild birds underneath and absolute chaos.
Rabbits and hens get on together well.
The hens love and need to dig, but it need not be earth; piles of builder's sand, small gravel etc are fine.
Even though they dig, they still need grit.
Have a think about water in the winter - both to drink when it's icy and the mud you'll get!
The earth/soil/mud must not get anoxic or you'll get odour and fly problems.
They'll need to dust bath: play sand in a builder's big bucket can be good - be prepared to refill on regular intervals.
I'll stop there as I'm sure you're overloaded with advice.
Recently a poster asked about mentors. Perhaps someone near you would volunteer? The idea is great; I wish we had had some hand-holding when we started ;-).
Best of luck
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There is no such thing as a silly question !
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:lol: Wow, so many helpful replies! Seems a poultry forum is where you find sensible, intelligent and always friendly people... Had liked to say the same for rabbit forums no matter whether they are German or English, you wonder if they all got up with the wrong leg in the morning.
About the dust bath, how do you keep the sand dry as it doesn't seem to be a dust bath once the sand is wet.
Should the run be covered completely or only part of it? Being British, I guess those chicken do not bother with getting wet a little bit as many times I wonder why our rabbits sit so relaxed in the rain and enjoy themselves, but they are simply British :happy:
Do you keep the food within the run or the hen house? Within my researches I've found both ways but as the most of their pooing will be during the sleeping time I guess it is not a good idea having it in the hen house if it is not big enough to keep space between the hens and feeders. How do you keep it with that?
When it comes to food I definitively must keep it within the run as there are not only cheeky rabbits after chicken food but a raising number of pigeons, too. Our landlords once started feeding them, they even kept lots of plates for them outside! Then I stopped it. But since the first cheeky pigeon dared walking inside the rabbit's shed and eat among the bunch of rabbits, more and more too this as an invitation so I started feeding them with chicken food on my compost. At least they keep it ventilated with their feed and what they don't find will grow and become food for the rabbits. But sometimes I feel a bit like in Alfred Hitchcocks "The Birds"... :lol:
So for that and the rabbit babies I guess, in the beginning I will keep the chicken within a closed run anyway. Once everything is settled we can start slowly and see, how it is going. By that time our Schlumpi rabbit will be neutered anyway as he is far toooooooo busy and the giants are, hope here is nobody among who will hate me for the truth!, for breeding for our own meat. Well, not exactly my Faith and Hope but their babies will propably not all end in another loving home but on my cooker, too. But this is life. We eat other animals without thinking about their life and how it came to an end but with a cute bunny everyone seems to be shocked about that idea. Anyway, back to the chicken.
I've seen some chicken coops with closed run that seems to be big enough for the beginning though I am sure even for 3 chicken I will not take one smaller then 5 - 6 chicken, most probably bigger.
As it goes for the water supply in winter it depends on if I could keep it within the coop or in the run. The first winter our rabbits had only the shed and I put some egg-cardbordboxes underneath the roof and some other materials, too, and though temperature went below zero many times the water never froze. If it is outside I will have to offer them for winter either more often fresh water or I knit a head for the feeder and water suspender...
And is good to know that bark isn't very suitable for them. I tend more to soil as - again experience from the rabbits - it absorbs much better and develop hardly any smell. I started out with some "loo corners" in the yard for the rabbits filled with red building sand and with the first few warmer days I soon realized it had been a stupid idea though we got the sand for free. It smelled worse than some public toilets. Since I put soil on top, it is fine. No smell at all.
Hm, and though I was "promised" a strong winter with lots of snow here in my Bolton town, it seems since I am here in UK the snow doesn't dare to come as much as hoped, so I assume there won't be too much of insulation for the coop necessary.
Anyway, I talk too much, I know...
Thanks again to everyone for sharing!
Neelam
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check your inbox neelam :)
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salam neelam tried inboxing you wouldn't let me. i started keeping chickens about 3 years ago, i spent money on buying coops etc then started to expand on number of chickens and started making the coops myself, very easy to clean and maintain also built a walk-in run with the help from my cousin. they will need to be protected from the foxes i lost four chicks to a fox so decided to build a fox proof walkin run with a roof. it gets really muddy and smells after a while, so i've put hardcore sand pressed it in then playsand on top so it's soft for their little feet and it doesn't smell and less flies and easy to brush up the droppings as sand dries them up. i have pakistani aseels or asils however u want to spell it, and couple of desi hens for the eggs.
i can show you my set up if u'd like. too many pictures to upload on here lol
chickens will take most of your time and you'll end up having more than you could think of! :)
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That's a kind offer Mohs. Hope Neelam can take it up.
The dust bath does need to be dry so under cover.
Whilst hens will often be seen out in the rain looking drenched, it is only the back feathers which are wet; they must not get the inner feathers/skin wet, so in heavy rain or windy rain they do need shelter.
In winter the snow is an insulator, but you need to watch feet and wattles - some people put vaseline on wattles to prevent frostbite. If the coop is draught proof, they will be fine as they cuddle up and push out their feathers.
As for feeding the local wildlife; I've given up and just accept they enjoy my offerings! This said there is a danger of them bringing in disease or parasites. Not a problem here as the hens are free range and can go out to bring in their own problems, although in truth we have very few as they are regularly wormed and the coop cleaned and treated for mites.
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wa alaikoum salam, Mohs,
well it sounds like a good offer seeing your set up - in a way.
Thing is, I have no car but therefore 2 lovely 2 legged arm extensions (well at least often they feel like being part of my body) and their stroller used as a truck :lol:
I even have no idea how far from us your set up will be to go and have a look at, so I need to be very nice to my husband and ask him, if he could imagine to see some Pakistani Aseel on his day off (Sundays) as the rest of the week he has to run "my" business which I can't due to those arm extensions. I will discuss this with him and let you know. Maybe you can give me an idea, where you are situated?
Jazak Allah kheir for your offer!
P.S.: Inboxing should be ok now
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It still says u can't receive personal message, mayb u should try messaging me and i'll reply to that.
im in derby bit far from bolton, i can send you plenty of pictures or if u want to visit sundays is fine for me before 4 i go to work then. :-) maybe we can have one of the chickens for lunch lol
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It still says u can't receive personal message, mayb u should try messaging me and i'll reply to that.
im in derby bit far from bolton, i can send you plenty of pictures or if u want to visit sundays is fine for me before 4 i go to work then. :-) maybe we can have one of the chickens for lunch lol
New members need to have 10 posts before they can send or receive a pm mohs.ayaz so a few more posts and Neelam will be able to do that. ;)
There are lots of pictures of members setups on HERE (http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=73179.0)
I looked for some of mohs.ayaz photos he had posted on here of his set up but they are no longer available. :(
This is my walk in run which is in three sections, a large area for the main flock, two smaller ones, one for quail and the other for chicks. It is constantly changing in design, we now have an eglu cube on the outside with an opening in to the main run. Next job is to do the same with an eglu classic on the outside of the chicks run.
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This is my walk in run which is in three sections, a large area for the main flock, two smaller ones, one for quail and the other for chicks. It is constantly changing in design, we now have an eglu cube on the outside with an opening in to the main run. Next job is to do the same with an eglu classic on the outside of the chicks run.
Sure that's only for poultry?
Looks better than many houses I've seen in the past 2 years here!
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We do tend to over engineer things. ::) :lol: We started off with a cheap import coop with electric net fencing around but soon found that did not work well in our wet climate as our garden is clay, so we thought we had better make a purpose built run with roof.
We do have a shed with cobbled together run where there are no right angles. My brother put an old shed up for me and did not level it very well then the run was built on to it so is a bit ramshackled. ::)
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This was yr ag
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I will take more pictures soon.
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They've grown so much in months. :-)
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Those are beautyful birds!
What materials did you use for coop and run? Mean, what type of wood?
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For the coops i used plywood 12mm they cut them in sizes you can buy them online cheaper but my local supplier cut them to sizes i needed so worth paying extra. 2inch squared wood for the framework.
For the run i used 1inch by 1 1/4inch 6ft long. I have forgot what it's called i'll remember it by tomorrow lol.
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We do have a shed with cobbled together run where there are no right angles. My brother put an old shed up for me and did not level it very well then the run was built on to it so is a bit ramshackled. ::)
A bit ramshackled would be perfect for our backyard, believe me... :wub:
How do you call the material your roof is made of in English? Cannot even remember the German word for it right now, shame on me...
The picture shows the corner I would like to put the coop and run as it has shelter from two sides. Thing with building something on my own is, that my little arm extensions are a bit naughty when there are tools and all sorts of interesting building stuff around and I guess, it most certainly would end up in me building the run for the kids instead of the chicken to lock them up from time to time :lol: (So without someone who can help almost impossible, that's why for our rabbit shelter I had been quite inventive.)
(http://abload.de/img/dscf9047w5scz.jpg) (http://abload.de/image.php?img=dscf9047w5scz.jpg)
Those paving slabs cover the whole backyard besides the few parts I took them out as for my rabbit compost that you can see on the right hand corner of this picture.
For the run I would keep them underneath the coop and one row in front of, the rest I would take out and fill up with sand and soil.
Any suggestions from you whether you would get someone to build the place or get something ready?
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You have a good site with the two walls already there.
The roof structure has trusses.
It would depend how handy you are as to whether you can build it yourself. You can buy the panels premade or construct your own. You could put a sloping roof on with the span not being very wide.
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It would depend how handy you are as to whether you can build it yourself. You can buy the panels premade or construct your own. You could put a sloping roof on with the span not being very wide.
I consider myself as quite handy and have build quite a lot of things made of wood or zinc and copper sheets and so on in my life, thing is only, that I suffer from a lack of suitable tools since I came to UK :(
My old Makita hasn't the power for those brick walls, I already tried that just for a ridiculous washing line hook and could not succeed though the drill was the right one. And the same is for the wood sheets.
Wooden beams I can saw with a hand saw but a wooden sheet would take ages and my jigsaw seems not to be quite adaptable for British Jigsaw blades. So if you cannot borrow those tools from DIY shops as some in Germany offer, this could be my biggest draw-back. My first thought has been to get the framework at the open side, fix trusses around the brick wall's top for the roof construction so the slope roof could be turned outside the yard for the drainage (there's a wide enough green space between wall and pavement, so nobody will be disturbed but the yard gets less additional water from the roofs. Or it had to be a roof with a gutter and could end in a rain barrel.
The coop definitively must be back side to the tree as on hot summer days it gives the chooks additional shade as for from late afternoon in summer there will be sun in this corner almost till dawn plus it gives more wind protection... However I found car covers quite usable for the problem of draught with the rabbits. It lets air through but is at least 95% waterproof, so even on a sunny day it will not heat up much more than the outside and the rabbits have a bigger shelter and their kennels stay dry, too. Looks a bit spacy my "Mars Station" that I told my husband is a Gas Chamber undercover... :tongue2:
But climate is perfectly fine underneath. Just to give you an impression what I mean, there is a picture...
However, those car covers might be another way for summer heat protection and especially for draught protection.
(http://abload.de/img/8.10.24vqs0l.jpg) (http://abload.de/image.php?img=8.10.24vqs0l.jpg)
So, all I really would need is: A way to borrow those tools without having to buy them yet, and someone handy to help either to keep my arm extensions happy and entertained or giving me a hand with the building (or both). Ideas I would have enough...
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Some more pictures they may help with the framework. :)
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Hi Neelam, you asked what material was used for the run roofs in the photos - this would be Onduline or Coroline depending on which manufacturer was used. This is great for roofs on coops as well as runs as it doesn't provide a hiding place for red mite.
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Heres the final picture ready for winter
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Ok, thanks mohs and joyfull for those information and shared pictures, it helped me quite a lot and for the Roof I'll google it. Last question about the run: did you staple the mesh wire to the framework? Would this be stable and long lasting enough? And if it is stapled, with a stapler (those big ones) or those single wire staples you can get and that to me seems literally impossible to get them in straight without risking fingers - besides I might use them wrong way? (So far I thought they are to be used like a U-form nail, holding to the surface and get them in with a hammer?)
And something different: Looking at coops, there are coops said for 4 chicken but having 2 nest places and 6 chicken having 3... Do I not need one for each chuck I keep?
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I used a heavy duty stapler cost me about 6-7 pounds i think with some staples. I wouldnt recommend u shape. Use the stapler that takes 10mm staples mines still standing firm. Make sure ur frame work has enough support. If you have made or making panels then put a support in each corner of the panel. Look at my pics. Check this item on ebay.
Item number:
331003632683
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We also used a stapler on ours, the heavy duty one is fine but we managed to borrow an electric one which made the job much quicker. We made up one panel to check if it was ok and then cut all the lengths for the rest so we had a bit of a production line going which saved time. We ordered the shiplap for the kickboard and asked for it to be cut to size which saved us a job. ;)
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Recently a poster asked about mentors. Perhaps someone near you would volunteer? The idea is great; I wish we had had some hand-holding when we started ;-).
Best of luck
I posted re a mentor, I didn't find one but this forum is very helpful and this thread in particular :D
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I posted re a mentor, I didn't find one but this forum is very helpful and this thread in particular :D
Yes, it is very helpful indeed and I still be amazed that there a some forums left in the www who a polite and kind tune is spoken and not the raised finger if you ask a question. Thank you so much to all of you.
For now, I got quite a few weeks time to think and reconsider everything I've learned in this forum as well, gardening can be quite dangerous and now I suffer a mulitfragmentary fracture in my left toe. Shouldn't have bothered with those heavy paving stones, I guess, or should have got steel-toed boots first insted of my rubber boots. Anyway, I've one final question before sitting, toe up, and think about our chicken.
1.) How do you manage to feed them every day at the same time if you have little children who are not always predictable so you could be delayed by the unforeseen.
2.) How high is the risk, after all requested hygiene, that a chicken disease is infectious for the little children (3 years, 11 months) and the rabbits?
Thanks for the help!
Neelam
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It is easiest to let them help themselves to food, hang your feeder off the ground so mice/rats can't get at it and it is under cover from the weather (it turns mouldy within 1 day when wet). Chickens need the food available to them during daylight hours and they will help themselves as and when they want it.
As with any animal a good hygiene routine is best so your children should be fine as long as they wash their hands after being with the hens. You could have a hand cleanser near the hens for use like when you visit a hospital. ;)
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You could have a hand cleanser near the hens for use like when you visit a hospital. ;)
THAT'S quite a good idea, never got it myself... :nowink:
That I will definitively get anyway, even with the rabbits it is not too bad having it close by before touching everything in the house on the way to the basin.