Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Chatting => Chatting on the Plot => Topic started by: sospan on June 19, 2019, 19:59
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Well this is another interesting problem.
We have a local authority allotment site in a built up area. See picture below The access road to plot is quite wide and has no houses on it but has a garage at one end near the gates.
Even though there is no dropped curb and there is plenty of room for him to manoeuvre in and out, the owner of the garage keeps on complaining to the council about the allotment attendees allegedly blocking access to his garage.
The council has now threatened unless we park elsewhere (and cause problems for other residents) we will have our tenancies terminated. We have also pointed out to the council that around a third of the plot holders have "blue badges" which should be taken into account. The Coucils representative said that they are not obliged to provide parking or even make it accessible.
Anybody got any thoughts, suggestions, comments, advice ?
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First thought...
Cancel your tenancy and sell the land to a developer!
That will probably make the grumpy one even more grumpy and wish they kept their mouth shut :lol:
Edit: Is the road unadopted? If so the council may not have the power and worth checking the legal aspect of the threat. Just a thought.
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We did think about putting up a joking planning notice for something like a pig farm or waste recycling
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There are probably several things to consider. Importantly, who owns the road? Is it a public highway or is it privately owned land? How long have the allotments been there, and how long (assuming the same) has parking been the 'norm' there? If it is a public highway, are there any parking restrictions in place?
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I would say that if it is a public highway, and there are no parking restrictions on it, then you are fully entitled to park - obviously ensuring that the "gentleman" has access in and out of his garage.
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There are probably several things to consider. Importantly, who owns the road? Is it a public highway or is it privately owned land? How long have the allotments been there, and how long (assuming the same) has parking been the 'norm' there? If it is a public highway, are there any parking restrictions in place?
It is a council owned road. I grew up in the area and I am nearly 60 and they were there well before I was born. They go back before WW2.
No parking restrictions
As you can see from the picture below there isn't even a proper drive way, dropped curb and they have to drive across a grass verge.
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I would say that if it is a public highway, and there are no parking restrictions on it, then you are fully entitled to park - obviously ensuring that the "gentleman" has access in and out of his garage.
He is certainly not a gentleman - he refers to the plot holders as "hippies" :D
This is what we don't understand, there is plenty of room for him to use his garage as the road is over 10m wide and with a car parked opposite there is still more than a cars length across the road.
If there was an genuine problem with access then we would understand, what he wants is nobody to park in the street at all for whatever reason
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The majority of council allotments are "Statuary" allotments rather than temporary allotments.
You cannot be evicted from your statuary allotment plot unless you have broken your tenancy agreement.
Is there anything in your agreement about parking ?
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You will also find that a lot of local councils - ours included - cave in to even just one complaint because they can't be bothered to deal with it in the proper manner. If you and your fellow allotmenteers submit a strongly worded objection to this out of hand decision, you will probably find that the council will reverse the decision, especially if you can demonstrate that there decision is unlawful.
If the road is a public one, and there are no parking restrictions, then it is outside of the remit of the council to apply any, as anyone is entitled to park there.
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Don't think he's got any legal right to protest given that technically he does not actually have a drive (i.e. with a dropped kerb.)
My understanding is that anyone could legally park right in front of his house, although I don't think that would be a good idea in this particular situation! ;)
Based on what you say I suspect the council responded without a great deal of consideration of the facts, and Mr. Awkward needs reminding of his (lack of) legal rights.
(There are some peculiarities in the law though - technically you could receive a parking fine for blocking your own drive :ohmy:, and it's not technically illegal for someone else to park their car on your drive - council can do nothing as the vehicle is on private land which is outside their jurisdiction.)
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Thanks for all the responses much appreciated
Anybody have any knowledge or experience on the councils obligations to make allotments "accessible" Which after chatting to several plot holders is an issue. At least a third of the plot holders have a disability which is part of the parking issue. We also don't have defined paths between the plots, many are uneven mixes of grass and mud with bumps and divots. Let alone the necessities of a toilet !
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I am sure under the disabilities act the council MUST provide disabled access to all of their facilities.
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The Law of Allotments 5th Edition states:-
"Obviously any allotment tenant must have a proper means of access to his allotment, for himself and his necessary equipment. If the allotment adjoins a highway there will normally be an existing gate, but the making of a new entrance onto a highway will amount to development for the purposes of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, and so need planning permission. The tenancy agreement should include, preferably expressly a right to use the existing paths between other plots so as to enable a tenant to reach his own allotment, and there should be a similar right across any intervening land belonging to some person other than the allotment landlord, between the allotment land and a convenient highway."
I think there would also possibly be some reference to right of access in Disability Rights law.
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Googled your site, it does not look like a road but a right of way which goes behind the houses. How many garages open onto the road? More than one person might have complained.
I would ask the council about this road.
Are all the allotments taken at your site or could the ones nearest the entrance move to another area and that area be turned over for parking.
The council might be able to put a disabled bay or 2 in, but there still be no parking for others.
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Googled your site, it does not look like a road but a right of way which goes behind the houses. How many garages open onto the road? More than one person might have complained.
I would ask the council about this road.
Are all the allotments taken at your site or could the ones nearest the entrance move to another area and that area be turned over for parking.
The council might be able to put a disabled bay or 2 in, but there still be no parking for others.
Only 1 has complained and he has the only garage which opens to the access road. We have a lane that runs the length of the site which has lots of garages opening onto the lane. They don't have a problem. Indeed a couple of plot holders make use of the ramp to one particular garage and park there. If they guy needs access they move the car then when he has finished put it back.
All the plots are taken at the moment.
The problem is the Council won't invest ( austerity cuts) in the site. E.g the site was insecure with big holes in the boundary planting and the chain link fencing was the same. So I stitched and restrung the fence and repaired the gaps in the other boundary by laying the bushes, replanting and fitting some Heras fence panels I had. So the chances of them doing anything significant is quite slim
Well they did provide a skip for rubbish this year but that was because there were several new plot holders and they had to clear the debris of the previous occupiers.
Hence the frustration, we are trying to improve the site but no support
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Regarding his right of access into the drive...
When we decided to turn our front garden into a drive we applied to the council for planning, we had to pay the council to have the kerb dropped and the pavement covered with tarmac, we also paid to have the white H in front on the road, however it was maxe very clear that we have NO right of access onto our property, should anyone park in front and we cannot exit the property then we have the right to have the vehicle removed. I suspect looking at the photo he has NO planning for a drive or access off or onto his property.Clearly better legal advise would be better sort I suspect.
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Regarding his right of access into the drive...
When we decided to turn our front garden into a drive we applied to the council for planning, we had to pay the council to have the kerb dropped and the pavement covered with tarmac, we also paid to have the white H in front on the road, however it was maxe very clear that we have NO right of access onto our property, should anyone park in front and we cannot exit the property then we have the right to have the vehicle removed. I suspect looking at the photo he has NO planning for a drive or access off or onto his property.Clearly better legal advise would be better sort I suspect.
I think you're right in saying this. As I understand it, nobody has a right of ACCESS to their property, but everyone has a right of EGRESS. This would mean that if your car is already parked on your property the law prevents anyone from parking across your drive, but if your vehicle isn't parked on your property, then anyone is entitled to park across your drive. Not that anyone who has any sort of consideration for other people would do such a thing, but there's always the exception.
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You have a number of issues here:
1. Can you park on the street?
2. Can your tenancy be terminated for parking on the street?
3. Does the council have to make any allowances for disability access etc.?
Number one:
The Highway Code sets out where parking is/not allowed, and where it is suggested that you do/don't park: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiting-and-parking-238-to-252 .
Basically, yes. Unless you're causing an obstruction of the highway, other restrictions, you can park on a road.
Does it matter where you park on the road? It can do. Preventing someone from leaving their property is obstruction of the highway (although preventing them getting back onto their property is not). This will depend on your facts - if the garage owner can in fact drive out of the garage onto the road then the parked cars haven't caused an obstruction. From what you say, the road is easily wide enough; but it may depend on how close to his 'access' the cars are parked and the angle of travel.
NB. I agree with other that the garage owner is breaking the law by driving over the kerb and grassed area (and is there a pavement too?) to access / leave his garage, unless the council has given him permission to do so pending installation of a dropped kerb. You could therefore argue that he has no right to enter or leave the garage using a car in any event, as to do so involves breaking the law. But two wrongs don't make a right …
The Property Ombudsman has agreed in the past that it appears to be the law that people can park across properties where there is no dropped access: https://www.tpos.co.uk/news-media-and-press-releases/case-studies/item/an-undropped-kerb-misleading-action
Number two:
As Aunt Sally mentioned earlier, it may depend on what is in your tenancy. If there is a clause that says Thou Shalt Not Park on That Road, then the council can probably argue its point. But I doubt you have such a clause.
There might be something in the tenancy about not breaking any laws. However, even if you had such a clause then you'd be within in your rights to say that the council can't terminate a tenancy unless you've actually been convicted of breaking the law … which of course wouldn't apply as the council hasn't prosecuted anyone.
Finally, there might be something more vague in the tenancy about generally being a good egg, or not affecting neighbours. The council could have a bit more leeway with this one.
Number three:
The council has a duty to provide allotments, but - assuming it has access to the land around it - does not have a general duty to provide access to them other than on foot with a wheelbarrow. It also is not obliged to provide parking. The council agent is right so far.
However, under the Equality Act 2010, where a particular way of doing things places a disabled person at a substantial disadvantage to those without the disability, then there is a duty on someone providing a service to make reasonable adjustments to reduce or remove that disadvantage. Equality Act 2010 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/2/crossheading/adjustments-for-disabled-persons)
(That is why blue badge holders are exempted from having to comply with certain local parking byelaws for up to x hours - the council's bye-laws / practices would cause a substantial disadvantage to people with disabilities, and a limited adjustment is reasonable to ensure that they can access the local facilities. It is not an unlimited right - blue badge holders are not allowed to park at all in certain places, where an obstruction or danger would be caused, and for only a certain duration).
The council agent is therefore completely wrong in principle by saying they don't have to make any allowances for people with disabilities. If a practice of theirs puts people at a substantial disadvantage, they have to make reasonable adjustments. Note that only reasonable adjustments are needed.
There is also the Public Sector Equality Duty, where public organisations such as councils must have due regard to the need to 'advance equality of opportunity between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic (e.g. disability) and persons who do not share it'. Again note that they must 'have due regard to'. They are not required to take any and all steps that might assist. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-sector-equality-duty
On your site, what does that mean? I'm not sure that it would be reasonable to make all paths wheelchair-accessible, for example. It has to be proportionate. Ditto for providing a toilet.
I also don't think that they can do anything legally about the specific parking situation for blue badge holders, unless they put yellow lines along the road and only allow BB holders to park there or create a designated space on site as suggested by someone (I realise there isn't the space to do so now). If the parking on the road is, in fact, causing an obstruction then there's nothing the council could do - that law is a national law and therefore a council can't give someone permission to break it in this way.
Sorry, this has turned into an essay. I hope that at least some of it was understandable and useful! At least it might give you some ammunition in the rather high-handed way this council agent has dealt with the situation so far.
Do you have a local ward councillor who might help you? Also bear in mind the Local Government Ombudsman has certain powers once any complaints route with the council has been exhausted. But do try to persist in resolving this informally if you can - take photos of the site, have a site visit, to see what the parking in reality is like etc. I agree that they are likely to think that it's easier to shut you up and appease the garage owner...
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Thanks for the time and effort for writing that. It sums up all the plot holders thoughts.
What the garage owner wants is essentially nobody to park in the top half of the street - for whatever reason.
The problem is that if we can't park in the street we have to park in the next street, which will then upset more people and compound the problems. What can't be seen is that there is quite a rise to the plots from the surrounding roads which would make a real burden for many BB holders.
When I went to my Welsh Assembly minister, I pointed out another issue - should someone have an fall as consequence of the ruts caused by the garage owner in the verge whom would be liable ? The garage owner ? The County council that owns the verge or the Town Council that is facilitating him parking there ? I can see a claims solicitor having a field day with that
The site agent is also putting himself in a difficult position because there is no dropped kerb he is permitting the guy to break several acts and therefore could land himself in for a charge of "misconduct in public office". Which would be drastic measure to say the least
What is on paper a really simple problem is now blown out all proportion by the action of a single individual
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All local councils will do anything possible to avoid legal action being taken against them... they can't afford it. So you are in a strong position.
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The site agent is also putting himself in a difficult position because there is no dropped kerb he is permitting the guy to break several acts and therefore could land himself in for a charge of "misconduct in public office". Which would be drastic measure to say the least
What is on paper a really simple problem is now blown out all proportion by the action of a single individual
Just to advise you that Misconduct in a Public Office is not a route that is worth you following. I know enough about this criminal offence to say that the type of conduct envisaged by it is on a wholly different scale from what we are talking about here. Don't devalue your valid arguments by over gilding the lily.
But I do agree that this problem has escalated beyond what is merited!