[TimGuyUK]

Hi Everyone.

We're are Tim and Becky from Leamington/Warwick

We took a plot on this time last year. It hadn't been used for a while. A local community centre had split it up into raised beds and everyone had a bed. I don't think it went to well and the plot was unsed for years.

We knew this when we took it on. What we didn't realise was that the grass around the beds wasn't grass as such, it was carpet and it took a good 2-3 months to get time to lift it and remove.

We took out all the beds apart from 6 which was grew bits and bobs last year to at least keep our hand in.

Spring came this year. I had some carpet that I had moved around the plot over winter leaving for a month before moving, all looked ok and bare. Tbh with a busy job and no rotavator we got 1/3 plot dug over and planet spuds. Luckily Becky found a rotavator for 70quid and it was game on again. We have half the plot planted.

HOWEVER. We knew it was there. The plots next door said, but OMG its arrived. Horsetail. Its everywhere. I know the ins and outs, Ive read it all. I have yet to try the Kurtail (RoundUp 3000 didnt touch it).  I have purchased a Sheen 300 to try and burn it. TBH with paraffin at 7-8quid for 4  litres and you having to point it directly at the weed its so thick it would cost 100s in paraffin.

My carrot rows never made it, beatroot is clinging on, corn and broad beans are covered but luckily their taller than the tail now. I can pull it up and that's ok for a week (maybe less and then its back)

So I can still grow for the season BUT the whole plot needs a spray of something. But when? The tail doesn't appear till the veg has been sowed so spring is most likey out of the question. Autumn isn't going to be worth while. Or do we maybe not even plant next year and just do a blank through the season repeated spray?

I admit it isn't just horse tail. There are other culprits as well. I think its just a unloved plot that wants to thrive on its on without us intervening.

Id like to return new scaffolding plank beds next year and get some paths paths down. This might be the only way to isolate the tail, all be it in the beds I make (unless I line the beds with cover a metre down but I would of like to continue rotavating it (yes I know that's going to make the tail worse), sigh. however this starts to get expensive and I don't think I can cover that.

Anyhow. Autumn, Spring, Leave growing for a year? What do you people think?

[simonwatson]

Kurtail works wonders and will kill it stone dead every time.

[TimGuyUK]

Kurtail works wonders and will kill it stone dead every time.

Sounds good. When do you think we should spray? finish growing early and spray September or wait till it starts to appear in spring and hold off growing for abit?

Tim

[azubah]

The roots are there in winter, but go down very deep. I have been battling with it for years and have it in my strawberry bed. ( Actually it is so thick that the pigeons are having great difficulty getting to the strawberries, so it's not all bad.) I am intending to clear an area when the strawberries have finished and dig out as much as I can and then leave it till next summer to see what is left, then deal with it.

[snowdrops]

I think the mods will be along to tell you that kurtail is for professional use only & should only be bought & used by someone with a license.
On the other hand one of my half plots was riddled with horsetail when I got it in 20111/12. It really got me down,wished I'd never swapped plots to have side by side halves. 2012 was really wet year,hardly anything grew I became quite despondent,but read up about it a lot.
So I decided to look at its habit. It has long,long roots so takes moisture from very deep,not near my wanted plants & seeds. It will always be there,I know I won't iradicate it. I read its best to let it grow to about 7-10cms then pull it out as by then it has expend lots of energy into growing,so that's what I do. If I have bare soil I hoe it off, in planted beds I let it grow & really pull it up getting it up gently until I hear that snap. If I'm digging I dig out as mush as I can. I did spray with roundup 300 or something a few times to get rid of the couch grass etc which gave me a good start to be able to work on the horsetail. I cover beds with cardboard & manure where possible & plant some crops through weed suppressant membrane. I now don't let it bother me & do you know it isn't half as bad after 3 years of that treatment. In the spring watch out for the stems that release the spores they look like very thin pinkish toadstools, I pull them up straight away.
 It will still grow through membrane if you dig beds out & bury it so I wouldn't go to that expense,but use the membrane for paths with perhaps cardboard underneath or mark them out & keep the hoe going.
Hope that helps,you will get there it just takes time & effort. Have a look at the photos on my diary

[brokenglass]

I agree with Snowdrops i.e. the aim is to control rather than eradicate.     When you are improving the soil you are changing the conditions that Horestail thrives in i.e. wet, poorly drained, acid soil, this helps reduce the problem.     I was about to give up in my second year when a very wise Allotmenteer pointed out that fruit and veg still grow in the presence of this weed as such it isn't the end of the world.     Keep removing it when you see it, don't think that you can dig it all out, I tried that thought I had won the battle and a few weeks later it was back, but remember your crops will still grow.

[TimGuyUK]

Thanks People

Snowdrop. I must admit I'm at that 'down' stage. I go along to the plot most nights and I find myself spending all my time pulling it up and not doing anything else.

The spuds I leave. The fact that they have a leaf coverage means the tail doesn't really like going near them. The corn and broadbeans are my main concern. I am with no word of a lie weeding a 6-8ft sq patch every other day.

I don't get time to catch up with myself. very demoralizing.

I have cleared another 6ft sq section where I'm going to have another late attempt at runners. I planted runners and they never came up the other horsetail side. Ive grown some more in a temp green house and will planet this weekend.

This patch I'm constantly hoeing daily to try and keep it clear (just)

[TimGuyUK]

I agree with Snowdrops i.e. the aim is to control rather than eradicate.     When you are improving the soil you are changing the conditions that Horestail thrives in i.e. wet, poorly drained, acid soil, this helps reduce the problem.     I was about to give up in my second year when a very wise Allotmenteer pointed out that fruit and veg still grow in the presence of this weed as such it isn't the end of the world.     Keep removing it when you see it, don't think that you can dig it all out, I tried that thought I had won the battle and a few weeks later it was back, but remember your crops will still grow.

Second year is about where I am now. You are right things grow around it. Apart from my carrots. The tail (and other weeds) came so quick I was then left in a tricky situation as to if I tried to get the weeds and would I pull the carrots up too. I left it with that advice and the weeds went so thick the carrots didn't stand a chance. I will have to try and start all my plants from a greenhouse when funds allow.

[snowdrops]

You could mark out beds, then tackle one at a time,digging out as much roots as you can, cover the 'paths' in between to give you a head start. Honestly it will get better.

[Flowertot]

I too have a lot of it on my plot. I just do as Snowy does and pull it up when I dig in autumn/spring and whenever I weed. I leave ones in amongst carrot seedlings for the reason you suggest - I don't want to pull the carrots up too, but I snip these ones off so they don't shade the carrots or get energy from the sun. I then dig them up when I harvest the carrots. The problem has gradually decreased over the last 3 years and I don't think the crops are affected too much if I stay on top of it - but I don't ever expect to get rid of it completely. Good luck

[surbie100]

Hello and welcome from another sufferer - though mine isn't nearly as bad as yours. It's come over from a neighbouring plot and I am determined to keep it at bay for as long as possible. To that end I've dug down a spit and a half on the bed it's in and removed as much of the root as I could spot, and I'll do that every year if I have to. The guys on another plot on our site have been doing that for a couple of years plus covering the paths and manuring heavily and it is definitely lessening.

I looked into Kurtail in my initial panic about having it on the plot and infesting my absentee neighbours, but after some research into it I'd be fairly anti about using it. As Snowy says, it's professional use only. Add to that that it's a neuro-toxin, and it kills top-growth only, not the rhizomes I don't think that it's worth using. This might be of interest http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/reports/impacts_glufosinate_ammon.pdf Glufosinate is the active ingredient in Kurtail.

Good luck - it is possible to subdue it. 

[AnneB]

Our plot was riddled with it when we took it on nearly 5 years ago.  As well as horsetail we also had lots of rubble, broken glass and metal.   We were forced down the route of sifting every piece of soil in each raised bed as we built it.   It was a lot of work, but worth it.  We are now horsetail free, apart from in the polytunnel where we are still sifting under the newly erected cover.

I don't think there is any substitute for digging it out and weakening it.  It will go away eventually.  Others on our site have tried kurtail and it didn't work.

[Sparkyrog]

Professional opinion on K--tail ! Does it work on horsetail YES ! BUT although available on the open market ,technically you are committing an offense if not licensed for it's use ! so it cannot be recommended. My second comment would be this ! It is marketed as a non selective broadleaf weed killer  at that I have found it to be useless  with nettles needing a second dose and creeping thistle laughing at it .

[chillimummy]

Agree with others. After 3 years having my plot, there definitely is less of it.
It drove me mad first year but a lot of my problem was digging up grassy paths and carpet also.
Now my plot is in a better state, I get as much of it out in autumn and then after that pull it out when a decent size. Any bare patches of soil, I try and dig out as much of the root as I can get.     
I don't stress about it anymore although understand totally that feeling when you feel like plot covered in it!

[Dave NE]

I had a plot of land over 30 years ago which had marestail, It took me 7 years to clear it but I got there in the end. It has to show itself above ground and this is its weakness, just pull it up and recently I have learned to put it in a water butt, the roots go down a long way like comfrey and bring nutrients to the surface which makes a great tea, Dave